Putin made quite easily same kind of mistakes like Hitler after the victories against Poland and France. — ssu
Similarly Putin's earlier victories and the West's mute response made him confident the Ukrainians wouldn't be much of a match and he could pull off the invasion that he started on the 24th of February this year. — ssu
______Russia modeled it's attack from the most successful military operation that the Soviet Union did post-WW2: Operation Danube.
The objective was to capture Kyiv ... — ssu
The number of troops the Russians have deployed indicate they never intended to invade all of Ukraine. — Tzeentch
If the Ukrainians would not have defended at all, just why would you think Putin would have stopped? What Putin has said about the "artificiality" of the sovereignty of Ukraine shows clearly what he thinks about Ukraine. — ssu
LOL! :rofl: — ssu
What I was referring as proof was against the argument from Tzeentch that:
Everybody and their dog knew it wasn't going to be a repeat of 2014, and that the Ukrainians would be prepared. — Tzeentch — ssu
I don't read your posts — SophistiCat
don't care what you think, so don't jump up and down trying to catch my attention — SophistiCat
Really???Notwithstanding the fact that nothing in the article you cited comes close to refuting Tzeentch's point. — Isaac
Everybody and their dog knew it wasn't going to be a repeat of 2014, and that the Ukrainians would be prepared. — Tzeentch
Please now, Tzeentch, try yourself to back up your words and say that the battle for Kyiv wasn't a push to try to take the capital. The taking of Antonov Airport and the drive towards Kyiv.And what about your implied claim that Russia was aiming for a full-scale invasion of Kiev? — Tzeentch
I think I should take some example from you. :up:I see you mentioned me, but same applies to you as to boethius: I don't read your posts, I don't care what you think, so don't jump up and down trying to catch my attention after I already told you to fuck off - it's undignified. — SophistiCat
There are no winners in war. The survivors get to count their dead. — unenlightened
And what about your implied claim that Russia was aiming for a full-scale invasion of Kiev? — Tzeentch
Please now, Tzeentch, try yourself to back up your words and say that the battle for Kyiv wasn't a push to try to take the capital. — ssu
And then you say that doesn't refute the idea that everybody thought Ukraine was prepared and could stage a fight as it has done. :roll:
That's simply laughable. Insane. — ssu
LOL! :rofl: — ssu
We can get news and analysis just as events are progressing. We can get a survivor's account of Russian occupation days after it's been lifted. — SophistiCat
I see you mentioned me, but same applies to you as to boethius: I don't read your posts, I don't care what you think, so don't jump up and down trying to catch my attention after I already told you to fuck off - it's undignified.
— SophistiCat
I think I should take some example from you. :up: — ssu
Seems that you aren't a von Clausewitz fan.I also find it plausible that the Russians did not intend to take and hold Kiev — Tzeentch
Hmm...so Capturing the Western border was the objective then? Or what?- The Ukraine's centre of gravity is not in Kiev, because this war isn't conducted from Kiev. It's foreign support that is keeping this war going. Capturing Kiev would be symbolic, but not decisive. — Tzeentch
How? The US won't start WW3 because of Ukraine. That's already established. And what do you mean "by themselves"? The Russian army has had to save many times the Donetsk and Luhansk rebels before when the war was limited to the Donbas.- It is in Russia's primary interest that Ukraine continues to fight this war themselves. The capture of Kiev and it's C&C facilities could bring a western intervention closer. — Tzeentch
I wonder why you find it so hard to agree that a) Russians did try to take the Capital and b) once the defense was far more stiffer than anticipated, they understood that some Stalingrad/Grozny -type slow methodical overtaking of the capital was immensely costly and likely counterproductive, so they opted to withdraw understanding their limited resources. This withdrawal was easy as Ukrainians wouldn't follow them over to Belarus (and basically start a war with the country).My view is that the drive on Kiev was a show of force and Russia's last attempt at finishing the conflict quickly. By showing they were not bluffing, they could conceivably have made the West back off and forced a renegotiation of Ukraine's position. If this were to fail, which it did, it could double as a diversionary attack to allow Russian forces to occupy the south with less resistance. — Tzeentch
Seems that you aren't a von Clausewitz fan. — ssu
It is in Russia's primary interest that Ukraine continues to fight this war themselves. The capture of Kiev and it's C&C facilities could bring a western intervention closer. — Tzeentch
How? The US won't start WW3 because of Ukraine. — ssu
I wonder why you find it so hard to agree that a) Russians did try to take the Capital — ssu
b) once the defense was far more stiffer than anticipated, they understood that some Stalingrad/Grozny -type slow methodical overtaking of the capital was immensely costly and likely counterproductive, so they opted to withdraw understanding their limited resources. — ssu
I wonder why you find it so hard to agree that a) Russians did try to take the Capital
— ssu
Because I remain unconvinced that they made a serious effort to do so, and the attack was likely a probe, followed by a diversionary attack or feint. — Tzeentch
Are we to believe then, that if the Russian 'probe' had succeeded all the way to Kiev, it would have been a failure of the Russian strategy? — Olivier5
Get involved in philosophical discussions about knowledge, truth, language, consciousness, science, politics, religion, logic and mathematics, art, history, and lots more. No ads, no clutter, and very little agreement — just fascinating conversations.