Taxing people for using the social media:

Eros1982

It does not need too much effort to find out the bad effects social media are having on people's mental health, especially the youth.

It is said that one out in four teens in the UK is experiencing some kind of depression nowadays as a result of issues pertaining to appearance, bullying, public image and other things related to the daily use of social media.

On the top of all these, you have UK professors who argue that the Internet and the social media have reduced significantly the ability of young people to work on things and projects which demand focusing for extended time. So, you have people nowadays who can't read a book for more than 15 minutes, without them feeling they should check their Instagram. If there are such people, who can avoid their social media for a few hours, then they definitely are experiencing some kind of stress and distraction --which impede their ability to focus.

Many political activists in London, Washington DC, Brussels, etc., are saying that governments should act in order to prevent a catastrophe in the mental health state of a whole generation, but no real actions are seen except from punishing Trump and far right media outlets. So, the first thing some governments worry about is political orientation, not mental one.

The hearing of Mark Zuckerberg in the American Congress that took place a few years ago (on the scandal of Cambridge Analytica) killed the hopes of all those Americans who wish to see social media and internet regulated. This hearing, moreover, showed to me two things:

1) In American democracy the congressmen are more afraid of the big tech bosses than the opposite (Mark Zuckerberg seemed the only calm guy in that room).

2) In American democracy the regulation of information/internet/social media is seen as a process where politicians and big tech companies decide the destiny of 330 millions. No parents, no professors, no psychologists, no students are called to testify in these kinds of hearings... just the congressmen and the zuckerbergs can decide what is the best option for all of us.

Since there is still confusion on how governments should act on the mental health disaster caused by the social media, I propose in this discussion the idea of taxing people for using social media and for commenting on newspapers.

Actually, it looks ugly to me that all the crap on internet is distributed for free, but good articles in the Economist, NYT, and so on, ask you to pay in order to read. Hence, I propose a standard tax or rule for all newspapers and media outlets, so that some degree of fairness and professionalism to be applied in "the market" of information, without exceptions.

By taxing parents for the hours their kids spend on social media we make sure, also, that people do not see distraction as beneficial for their children.

Finally, I think the best way to go is classifying all the services that the internet has to provide and taxing anything that is non-essential, non-educative and distracting.

If we do this, I believe we set societies free from the patronage of politicians and big tech bosses, whereas we make everyone feel responsible for the hours they or their kids spend every single day on internet and the social media.

Agent Smith

Like always, c'est la vie, we're presented with a dilemma.

If you want it free expect your children to be exposed to all the muck there is in the world.

If you have to pay (taxes), it's an added financial burden which parents wouldn't want to bear. Children could be deprived of the benefits of the information age.

Perhaps via media is a workable solution to the problem - a tax alright but one that 99% of the population would be ok with. We would then be able to ensure quality content at fees that are reasonable.

No such thing as a free lunch, si? Too, I've seen people go :brow: when someone tells 'em "it's FREE OF CHARGE!" Alarm bells ring and for good reason to my reckoning. Scams are usually deals too good to be true and there's nothing gooder than free. Intriguingly, gifts are a part of our lives, no one's suspicious about gifts (pace the Trojans post-Trojan Horse).

Eros1982

↪Agent Smith

Since even the the experts of the field, psychologists included, are talking about regulating the social media nowadays, I couldn't think a better way of doing it, but taxing people.

If anyone else thinks that governments have a better solution on these matters, I'd like to hear it.

Till now I just see people going nuts and none doing enough to save them.

Agent Smith

↪Eros1982

I know! Keep screaming till someone hears ya!

Eros1982

In final analysis, I don't think that the children of the poor parents who cannot afford paying their Instagram accounts will be less happy than they are today.

Pantagruel

I think that the problem should be approached at the more general level of corporate accountability. Dramatically increase the scope of government to regulate corporate actions in anything that pertains to immediate social welfare - negative environmental impacts (externalized costs), cost of necessities (food, shelter). Then better regulation of the internet - insofar as that is a product of corporate interests - is just one more step in the right direction.

Agent Smith

On our wish list, information that's

1. Authentic (citations, peer-review)
2. Safe (ethical)
3. Free (gratis)
4. Unbiased (no hidden agenda)
5. Well-presented (audio-visual aids, animations, interactive, good penmanship)

The question: How to achieve these different targets simultaneously given that the current way things work makes that nigh impossible?

Cuthbert

It does not need too much effort to find out the bad effects social media are having on people's mental health, especially the youth. — Eros1982

True. With a little more effort but still not too much we can also find out the good effects. With yet more effort we can find out the bad and good effects of not having social media. So we will have four categories:

With social media - good effects
With social media - bad effects
Without social media - good effects
Without social media - bad effects

Then we will have the information we need to evaluate social media. Until then, it's one-sided polemic without a comparison.

For example, when I was a kid I used to spend my down time smoking cigarettes and stealing from shops. My friends had problems with drugs, self-harm and being bullied for their sexual preferences. Nowadays I would be dressing up and making a Tiktok video about my gender identity and my friends would have problems with drugs, self-harm and being bullied for their sexual preferences. Which is worse?

Eros1982

↪Cuthbert

I think you comparing apples with olives, i.e. two different things.

An addiction you develop through being in the wrong place and with the wrong people is very different from an addiction that is imposed on you by all possible means in all possible places (through your cell phone, pc, notebook, smart tv, in your school, in your bedroom, restroom, in your job, your excursion, etc.).

https://amp.dw.com/en/p-4gjn4/a-62994670

Cuthbert

two different things — Eros1982

It's certainly worth considering that they are two different things, as you say. Another possibility is that they are the very similar things. What method would a person use to distinguish these cases - whether they are different or similar? They would need to investigate how someone who does not use social media develops similar problems. At the moment, you are focussing on social media and making no comparison with anything else. And you are focussing only on the harms, not the benefits. So you are asking only one out of four questions you need to ask.

Suppose we regulate and tax social media as suggested. Then suppose we find that misery, self-harm, bullying and distress do not reduce. Then we ask why. And suppose it turns out that the main cause wasn't social media all along. Social media played a part. The main causes were elsewhere. Somebody might ask why we did not make the comparisons and investigations that we should have done in the first place. I'm suggesting that we do that before deciding on solutions.

When we get to the hard slog of looking at this then of course we will find lots of cases of people who have benefited greatly from social media and that it has helped their well-being enormously. There will be cases of people who have never been near social media and have suffered poor mental health all their lives and in some cases taken their own lives. Cases of people who have ignored the internet and been quite happy. And cases of people who have felt hounded and haunted by social media and driven in some cases to suicide. Of course there will be all these. My complaint is that you are only considering one aspect out of four.

Eros1982

↪Cuthbert

Good points.

Any comments for poor parents who are okay with five year old kids to spend hours on TikTok just because they find this habit a good way to keep kids "busy"?

By, the way I made it clear that psychologists tend to think that a lot of harm is being inflicted on the mental health of children by the social media.

L'éléphant

If we do this, I believe we set societies free from the patronage of politicians and big tech bosses, whereas we make everyone feel responsible for the hours they or their kids spend every single day on internet and the social media. — Eros1982

Yes, it's horrible how for hours on end they're mindlessly on social media. And it's not just children. Even adults who should know better are addicted to them. Employers are now paying for the hours the employees spend not being productive -- some have even resorted to hiring more because employees are good at masking the amount of work, how little work, there is.

Tom Storm

↪L'éléphant

I watch some YouTube and attend this site which is the sum total of my screen life.

I know this is probably going to sound disingenuous, but when people talk about social media are they referring just to Facebook, twitter, TikTok, and Instagram? Anything else? I've read a few tweets and seen Facebook and Insta used by friends and colleagues, but I struggle to imagine the point of these things.

L'éléphant

I know this is probably going to sound disingenuous, but when people talk about social media are they referring just to Facebook, twitter, TikTok, and Instagram? — Tom Storm

Yes.

I've read a few tweets and seen Facebook and Insta used by friends and colleagues, but I struggle to imagine the point of these things. — Tom Storm

You and me both.

Tom Storm

↪L'éléphant

:ok:

Eros1982

↪L'éléphant

Thank you for mentioning the economic cost of all these hours spent on cell phones and social media. I guess small employers and gov jobs are the most affected.

It would be interesting to see any studies which give a picture of the economic cost & economic gains of the social media. We hear mostly about the jobs & opportunities created by the social media and Silicon Valley companies. But I think you are right to emphasize the cost of these activities.

I like sushi

↪Eros1982

Call me crazy but I think it is the responsibility of the parents rather than the taxman when it comes to nurturing children.

Cuthbert

Any comments for poor parents who are okay with five year old kids to spend hours on TikTok just because they find this habit a good way to keep kids "busy"? — Eros1982

When it turns out they are looking at videos about geometry in preparation for becoming maths prodigies then I'll be glad I didn't stop them. That's the problem. We look only at harms and not at benefits. We look only at the Tiktok viewing and not at what they would otherwise be doing. Then we generalise. Then we intervene and before we know it we're stopping baby Einstein from learning his maths.

Cuthbert

you have people nowadays who can't read a book for more than 15 minutes, without them feeling they should check their Instagram. — Eros1982

I was just the same, only I didn't have Instagram. So I spent the time ogling girls in the library and rolling cigarettes under the desk. Insta would have been preferable. You can take away opportunities for vice but more often it's the vice that's the problem not the opportunity.

(I think Instagram is some middle-aged thing for parents and corporations and few older celebs, right? I can't imagine most young people would be particularly interested.)

Eros1982

↪Cuthbert

You can roll your cigarettes and within two minutes you can think what were you doing before rolling the cigarettes.

With internet and social media it does not work that way. You go there to relax a couple of minutes and you find out you have spent there a couple of hours and have forgotten what were you working on.

Social media and internet control your mind. You think you have your own control, but most probably you don't.

Cuthbert

You can roll your cigarettes and within two minutes you can think what were you doing before rolling the cigarettes — Eros1982

Alas, no. It's life-long harm and an addiction. Of course, there are controls and taxation, as you are proposing for social media. But there are not the compensatory benefits, aside from the pleasure of smoking. The alternative to smoking is not smoking - you miss the pleasure of smoking but the health gains are enormous. So that's the four options in this case:

Benefits of smoking
Disbenefits of smoking
Benefits of not smoking
Disbenefits of not smoking.

I'm not an advocate for social media. It's a blight on many lives in many ways. I'm advocating for making comparisons and not focussing just on harms without looking also at benefits and at alternatives. It's four specific questions, not just one.

L'éléphant

Thank you for mentioning the economic cost of all these hours spent on cell phones and social media. I guess small employers and gov jobs are the most affected.

It would be interesting to see any studies which give a picture of the economic cost & economic gains of the social media. We hear mostly about the jobs & opportunities created by the social media and Silicon Valley companies. But I think you are right to emphasize the cost of these activities. — Eros1982

Yes, the most affected are small employers and government employers. I've worked in different firms and I've seen how productivity had gone down, but somehow, more employees are needed to work on scaled down quantity of work. I've seen a workplace where flexibility is allowed, but often this flexibility is abused and doesn't help the employees fall in love with their jobs.

Agent Smith

As the apocryphal narrative goes, Isaac Newton made two separate doors, one for momma cat and one for her kittens. We should, nay, we havta, do that, oui me amies? Syād, goes without saying.

Deus

There’s already a tax on it the tangible in the form of paying for internet access and the intangible, hijacked attention.

Worth a read: https://robertwigley.uk/#about_us

Book: Born Digital - The Story of a Distracted Generation

Eros1982

↪Deus

good to know there are books on this thing :)

Taxing people for using the social media:

Welcome to The Philosophy Forum!

Categories

More Discussions