Additional takeaway: Why not present and consider political arguments, rather than elect officials with an agenda? Why not address each issue democratically, rather than allow politicians to wheel and deal with each other? Anyone who wants to participate is welcome, so long as they operate within the landscape of the arguments. To fail in doing so is to fail to participate. — Cartesian trigger-puppets
Conclusion: Seeing as we need not evaluate the characteristics of the person making an argument, and that by doing so we allow our biases to influence the way we consider them (risking ad hominem attacks), we should indeed listen to arguments rather than people. — Cartesian trigger-puppets
But isn't this what I meant by being influenced by the person who makes the argument?But if we look at the person making the argument, maybe we could say based on his history, that he is making that particular argument only to justify or promote racist views. — ChatteringMonkey
Question: Should we listen to arguments rather than people? — Cartesian trigger-puppets
Arguments, on the other hand, are impersonal. Logic has no face, identity, color or smell. — Alkis Piskas
Question: Should we listen to arguments rather than people?
Background information: An “Argument” is where one or more premises (supporting propositions) provide reasons to believe a conclusion (main proposition). A “Proposition” is a truth-bearing statement (that is, a statement that bears truth and falsity). Examples of propositions include: "All men are mortal" or "Socrates is a man." These propositions form the following argument: (premise 1) “All men are mortal.”; (premise 2) “Socrates is a man.”; and (conclusion) “Therefore, Socrates is a mortal.” — Cartesian trigger-puppets
If a person makes the statement “A bachelor is an unmarried man”, the person’s characteristics (e.g., dishonesty, ignorance of marriage, immoral behavior, etc.) bring nothing to bear on whether or not the statement is true or false. The truth or falsity of the statement remains the same nonetheless, despite the characteristics of the person is making it. — Cartesian trigger-puppets
I see what you mean here. But this doesn't match the statement of your topic "Listening to arguments rather than people".Someone's making a choice in why one wants to make a particular argument and not make others. — ChatteringMonkey
What you've described isn't, and shouldn't be, the typical form that an argument takes on the forum. If I say "I hold this truth to be self-evident - all people are created equal," there is no simple logical road that gets us to a resolution. It's an essay question, not true/false or even multiple choice. — T Clark
This would be true except that most questions require knowledge and understanding of the relevant facts and conditions. For that reason, the credibility of those in the argument is an important consideration. For example, there are members of the forum who make technical scientific claims that are inconsistent with current science. In such a situation, it doesn't make sense to criticize the details of a long, involved, and unsupported argument. One good solution is to avoid the discussion. On the other hand, criticizing the credibility of the person making the claim is not irrelevant. — T Clark
I already said that to @ChatteringMonkey: Arguments are impersonal. Logic has no face, identity, color or smell. Which means that whoever makes a stetement --a philosopher or a layman, an intelligent or unintelligent person, etc.-- it can be judged solely based on rules of logic, sound reasoning, critical thinking and, of course, facts. A layman can make a perfectly interesting and valid statement about "existence" at any time. Only that the chances and frequency of this happening are much less than for a philosopher who knows the subject of "existence" much better and has been involved in it much longer and often. And on the contrary, they can both make invalid statements based on faulty logic and/or lack of knowledge (facts). They can be both measured with the same stick.Perhaps it’s more the norm in philosophy, but I’m talking about the rest of the world. Why don’t they in politics? — Cartesian trigger-puppets
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