Why should suffering have any purpose?

Teleological confusion.

Sure, it's nice when suffering leads to a better outlook - wisdom, if you like. Suffering leads to a desire, and perhaps a capacity, to avoid more suffering. But that's not giving suffering a purpose.

Sure, not an objective purpose. But there is a reason the brain causes pain to the consciousness when it is being damaged.

Hunger, a form of suffering, has no ultimate purpose, but it certainly has a purpose within the the context of ones bodily health.

To clarify, I don't think there is a purpose to causing oneself suffering. Only there is a useful way to look at the suffering one is already feeling or may feel in the future.

I am ok with calling this a way of making use of suffering.

What is the purpose of suffering? — Yohan

If you break a bone, it hurts. You will tend not to move that area of the body if you can. This can reduce the bone tearing through flesh and causing more damage.
If someone starts hating you, this can cause emotional pain. You may try to make amends if you were a jerk. You may seek tribal or group mediation. If it matter that others, especially those close to you, are angry at you, say, you have motivation - in the pain - to try to get back on better terms.
If you touch the fire and it hurts, you will likely avoid doing more damage.
Pain from falls will encourage care in situations where the fall would be a long one.
Pain - like headaches, muscle aches, joint pain, sore throat, etc. - during common illnesses probably tend to reduce your movement and energy use, in some instances eating. Your body can focus on the infection.

That's some possible off the top of my head stuff.

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So the purpose of suffering is to induce us to avoid suffering.

I don't think that's a good interpretation of my post. If you mean, hey the universe isn't teleological, that doesn't seem to be what he is asking about....

Hunger, a form of suffering, has no ultimate purpose, but it certainly has a purpose within the the context of ones bodily health. — Yohan

And sure, one could tell him that really it had no purpose, it's just that those organisms that survived suffered pain, since pain had some benefits for the health of the organism. But I didn't feel like going further than the thread had already in assuming he was heading for an argument for theism or some other teleology. I extended what did seem to be his intention, given his example of hunger.

So the purpose of suffering is to avoid suffering. — Banno

When we look for meaning in suffering, we are looking for some use in it, are we not? Looking at suffering as a teacher about what not to do seems very practical.

When we look for meaning in suffering, we are looking for some use in it, are we not? — Yohan

Of course; Don't look to meaning, look to use.

Yet there's a vicious circularity here, in that suffering is what we seek to avoid, and yet what we seek to avoid is suffering. Despite an illusion of having done philosophy, no explanation has been provided, no progress made.

The purpose of suffering is to learn the causes of suffering so that you don't have to cause yourself suffering anymore. — Yohan

That makes sense to me as an effort to be less stupid. But I am not sure how to apply the maxim to a map of the world.

So basically there is no point, and worse, it doesn't even make sense, to look for a purpose or meaning in suffering.

So then I suppose stoping looking for meaning in suffering is the solution to much of suffering. As its a desire that can't be fulfilled.

Syād, suffering is to mind as bath is to body (re self-mortification, flagellation, asceticism, etc.).

Syād, suffering is linked to existential threats i.e. they inform the sufferer of danger, that his well-being is at risk.

I feel trapped.

If I focus on avoiding suffering, I suffer from being too preoccupied with suffering.

If I focus on becoming happy, I suffer from feeling not happy enough.

If I just enjoy the moment, I suffer later from not considering the future enough.

I am curious about not considering 'the future enough'

One benefit of being mortal is that line of thinking is not available to us. We can think in terms of generations after us. What do you have in mind?

Don't blame me. I'm just pointing to the logic of suffering.

What is the purpose of suffering? — Yohan

"Suffering" is not an intentional agent so it cannot have a "purpose". The facticity of suffering is gratuitious insofar as suffering happens whenever a species functional defect of an emotive organism has been stressed to or past it's point of dysfunction. For examole, one does not suffer from pain itself but rather one suffers from the degree of dysfunction, or debility, caused by acute, persisting pain and compounded by fear that the dysfunction, or debility, will never cease. (i.e. PTSD). Thus, in most cases, we recognize when others of our kind suffer, that is, we can know what is bad, or harmful, for every human being ... most primates ... many mammals ... like ourselves. The more interesting – pressing – question is What is the purpose of those who are suffering?

I feel trapped.

If I focus on avoiding suffering, I suffer from being too preoccupied with suffering.

If I focus on becoming happy, I suffer from feeling not happy enough.

If I just enjoy the moment, I suffer later from not considering the future enough.

Is that really what you experience or are those your fears about what will/would happen if......?

If we are talking about emotional suffering, then current suffering can be a ressurection of past suffering.

Is that really what you experience or are those your fears about what will/would happen if......? — Bylaw

The last one may just be a fear.

In other words, the purpose of suffering is to gain wisdom. It is a friend to the wise, and an enemy to fools

Agree? — Yohan

What is the purpose of a brick? A sword? To build and protect or to smash and destroy? What of dancing around like a loon and making funny faces? To each their own, surely...

Not everything has a purpose, that is to say we assign and judge value based on little more than experience and belief said experience has often fathered. Does a child who knows little of suffering experience the same joy and appreciation when receiving a desired item as a man who toils and claws his way to the same? What of a kitten raised indoors with little knowledge of predators and natural hazards placed outside alongside one who wasn't?

Remember, I'm just some nobody online. But it sounds a little like an anxiety disorder.

Generalized anxiety disorder symptoms can vary. They may include:

Persistent worrying or anxiety about a number of areas that are out of proportion to the impact of the events
Overthinking plans and solutions to all possible worst-case outcomes
Perceiving situations and events as threatening, even when they aren't
Difficulty handling uncertainty
Indecisiveness and fear of making the wrong decision
Inability to set aside or let go of a worry
Inability to relax, feeling restless, and feeling keyed up or on edge
Difficulty concentrating, or the feeling that your mind "goes blank"
Physical signs and symptoms may include:

Fatigue
Trouble sleeping
Muscle tension or muscle aches
Trembling, feeling twitchy
Nervousness or being easily startled
Sweating
Nausea, diarrhea or irritable bowel syndrome
Irritability

So the purpose of suffering is to avoid suffering.
— Banno
When we look for meaning in suffering, we are looking for some use in it, are we not? Looking at suffering as a teacher about what not to do seems very practical. — Yohan

If one believes the world with which a person interacts is basically static , that the situation they find themselves is fixed and unchanging, then suffering , as a loss of previous thriving, could potentially be unending. One has no reason to expect the unpleasant situation to change.But many philosophers and psychologists today don’t look at our circumstances in this static way.
They believe we constantly transform ourselves as well as our circumstances , rather than merely being the victim of outside forces. We move through cycles of creative engagement with aspects of our world. We begin projects and relationships , move through periods of peak satisfaction and productivity, and then find ourselves at the end of a cycle. We temporarily run out of passion and inspiration, we become confused about our goals and purposes, we doubt our value, a relationship comes to an end, etc. Suffering marks the end of this cycles. If we believe i. the endless renewal of creativity, then we can view suffering as an opportunity to discover fresh projects and directions, as well as deeper insights. But it is only an opportunity if we take advantage of it and seek out new ways of thinking or living, and new relationships. Believing our world is static can become a self-fulfilling prophesy, freezing our suffering into a permanent condition.

Yet there's a vicious circularity here, in that suffering is what we seek to avoid, and yet what we seek to avoid is suffering. — Banno

Where is the vicious circularity? You just rephrased the same thing

That Yohan just rephrased the same thing is the point.

] Except their point is not "the purpose of suffering is to avoid suffering", rather "the purpose of suffering is to avoid the things which causes suffering".

Suffering marks the end of this cycles. If we believe i. the endless renewal of creativity, then we can view suffering as an opportunity to discover fresh projects and directions, as well as deeper insights. — Joshs

Interesting and I am sympathetic to this view. How do you understand the kinds of suffering generated by abject deprivation or illness - living homeless on the streets with addictions and mental ill health or terminal cancer?

The challenges of how one might keep warm and dry living rough present splendid opportunities for creativity, for fresh projects and directions.

I met with Tony Abbot once when he was PM - he said something very similar. But he came from the land of Certainty.

He did once get creative with an onion. Perhaps he missed breakfast that day.

Interesting and I am sympathetic to this view. How do you understand the kinds of suffering generated by abject deprivation or illness - living homeless on the streets with addictions and mental ill health or terminal cancer? — Tom Storm

Living with a terminal illness , and dying generally , isnt necessarily a monotonous unrelieved trajectory of suffering. It often has the same textured ups and downs of living. I think of Wittgenstein, who after a year or so of distraction from philosophy while dealing with his cancer , suddenly found a burst of creative inspiration just before his death, during which time he was able to write “On Certainty”.

I’ve known friends who were homeless and addicted off and on. The circumstances of people in this situation are complex and vary widely from person to person, depending on the reasons for their addictions, etc. My severely alcoholic friend seemed less concerned with his homelessness than with escaping the anxiety of social responsibilities, which is why he self-medicated with pills and alcohol.

↪Tom Storm The challenges of how one might keep warm and dry living rough present splendid opportunities for creativity, for fresh projects and directions. — Banno

The most hellish fate you could wish on someone is not homelessness, which people cope with in a wide variety of ways, but severe chronic depression, which can befall the wealthiest as easily as the most destitute. Severe depression, not torture , illness or poverty, is the closet approximation there is to a living death. And the reason is not only because the present offers no sense of relevant meaning , but it becomes impossible to imagine a future different than the present. This is the purest example of stalled creativity. William Styron would have exchanged his 10 years of depression for homelessness in an instant if given the choice.

Living with a terminal illness , and dying generally , isnt necessarily a monotonous unrelieved trajectory of suffering. It often has the same textured ups and downs of living. — Joshs

Yes, in some cases. Although having worked it the areas of palliative care, AoD services and homelessness for three decades what I have observed indicates that pain, anger and suffering overshadow other experiences.

My severely alcoholic friend seemed less concerned with his homelessness than with escaping the anxiety of social responsibilities, which is why he self-medicated with pills and alcohol. — Joshs

How have you established that you have have a fair interpretation of his choices/situation? Is self-medication a reaction to suffering, a form of suffering or something else in your view?

The circumstances of people in this situation are complex and vary widely from person to person, depending on the reasons for their addictions, etc. — Joshs

Agree. Do you think there is always a reason for an addiction?

The most hellish fate you could wish on someone is not homelessness, which people cope with in a wide variety of ways, but severe chronic depression, which can befall the wealthiest as easily as the most destitute. — Joshs

Indeed. Although I have noticed that people who are homeless often have chronic and severe depression - it often presents after becoming homeless (but may also sometimes be a cause of homelessness) and i generally see it as part of the suffering intrinsic to many people's experience of living homeless.

And the reason is not only because the present offers no sense of relevant meaning , but it becomes impossible to imagine a future different than the present. This is the purest example of stalled creativity. — Joshs

Nicely put - that 'stalled creativity' or frozenness seems to eat people alive and I certainly recognise this in the lives of many folk I have worked with (and colleagues, but that's another story).