Some positive feedback

Seeker

Though I myself am not knowledgeable enough to be able to actively participate in most threads simply because I lack the necessary tools to do so, having merely the basics of the English language at my disposal while also lacking in computational power, I am intellectually equipped enough and an adequate enough (English) reader to effortlessly and effectively binge-read through most of it. To me most of what I've encountered up until now makes for intriguingly good reads, articles made up from factual data, (science) fiction and what else spawned and coughed up by the accumulated knowledge, creative abilities and intellectual strength of the participants. I feel very lucky for the oppertunity to be a witness of such debates. In an abstract sorta way I'm like sort of a data-sponge absorbing the fruits of the intellectual prowess encountered and I feel it is just that which sustains the intellectual curiosity needed to prevent age related deterioration upstairs and to which I am not at all ashamed to admit. I have a deep appreciation for the collective wisdom, intelligence and creativity on display and while that is so I also suspect, and even assume, for such sentiment to be generally shared throughout the participant base, the thought of which is intriguing to me all the same. Having said all that, well its said.

Agent Smith

Chaoskampf!

T Clark

↪Seeker

I agree with you. I love the forum. I appreciate your comment.

As I've written to you previously, your English is good. You shouldn't be shy because of that. On the other hand, if you just want to read and not participate, that's fine.

Seeker

↪T Clark

Thanks, appreciate that but understanding and participating are two seperate things and I'm just not advanced enough, most here would lap me twice and have me for breakfast whenever they feel like it :sweat: If it were my native tongue I could have gone a long way but concerning TPF I'm pretty much content reading along with an occasional reply entering those discussions which I'm actually able to participate in without getting eaten alive :nerd:

ToothyMaw

↪Seeker

Are you educated in anything other than philosophy? And like T Clark said: your English is good.

reading along with an occasional reply entering those discussions which I'm actually able to participate in without getting eaten alive :nerd: — Seeker

I think we could all stand to be a little less cantankerous with each other ... or maybe not? Nevertheless, my favorite threads, and the most productive ones - imo - are the ones in which people find common ground, eventually, through argumentation.

BTW, if you ever change your mind and want to do an OP and you don't know if it's good enough/direct enough/concise enough, free of fallacies, etc., I think someone might be willing to give it a read before you post it.

Of course, plagiarism isn't allowed, but I think a quick read over would be fine.

Honestly, you probably couldn't do worse than some of the people I've seen post just based on this OP alone.

Seeker

↪ToothyMaw

I have no formal education but for primary school, after that I picked things up along where I went which I started to do more frequently with the mainstream availability of the internet.

I think we could all stand to be a little less cantankerous with each other ... or maybe not? Nevertheless, my favorite threads, and the most productive ones - imo - are the ones in which people find common ground, eventually, through argumentation. — ToothyMaw

Those are generally my favorites as well but those particular threads displaying a lot of (friendly) opposition, in which the different participants provide plausible counter-arguments while giving eachother enough oppertunity to do so, tend to be the most intriguing (mostly up until a point anyway).

BTW, if you ever change your mind and want to do an OP and you don't know if it's good enough/direct enough/concise enough, free of fallacies, etc., I think someone might be willing to give it a read before you post it.

Of course, plagiarism isn't allowed, but I think a quick read over would be fine. — ToothyMaw

Thanks for the suggestion, I have a few different OP's in mind actually so I'll surely consider doing so.

Gnomon

I have no formal education but for primary school, after that I picked things up along where I went which I started to do more frequently with the mainstream availability of theinternet. — Seeker

I too, have no formal education in Philosophy, except for a math course in basic Logic. Some of these threads & posts use technical scientific and philosophical jargon for brevity, which can make comprehension difficult, especially in a second language. Fortunately you can Google most of the unfamiliar terms, or look for them in Wikipedia. But, if any discussions are unclear, feel free to ask for clarification. If they know what they are talking about, most posters will welcome opportunities to expand on their brief comments. :smile:

Seeker

↪Gnomon

I'll generally get the gist of things discussed in such threads and as you also suggest I usually Google such special jargon. Thanks for the suggestions, I appreciate it.

Agent Smith

I have no formal education but for primary school — Seeker

That's all you need bruh! Of course a few classes in critical thinking/logic can do you good as well!

unenlightened

↪Seeker

This is called 'Bridge Song'.

It is about the Seeker and his Beloved ( the unnamed Sophia, Goddess of wisdom).

The Beloved invites, and the Seeker always replies:

"Beloved how I love, how I love
To see things through the magic of your eyes
To share things that make your spirit rise up
But try as I might, and try as I may
I can't see anything."

...until the end, where he says "I will see you - more."

We are all seekers and lovers of wisdom here, and you no less than any of us. We share our follies, and hope that wisdom shines through somehow.

Seeker

↪Agent Smith

Thanks.

Seeker

↪unenlightened

Thats beautiful, thanks.

Agent Smith

Thanks — Seeker

Bonum fortunam Seeker.

Seeker

↪Agent Smith

Tu quoque Agent Smith.

universeness

↪Seeker

All true seekers seek truth. Even the people who invented the words in the bible chose to include 'seek and ye shall find.' Only an arrogant deluded fool thinks he/she/hesh knows all that they need to know.
In past face to face encounters with others, I have often came away feeling defeated and depressed.
But I began to realise that those who I thought were mentally stronger than I and knew so much more than me in a particular area, were quite weak in other areas and in many cases were weaker and knew much less than I in some areas. We all have our strengths and weaknesses. Don't be too impressed when someone seems very powerful in any particular area of debate. No one is infallible. No living creature displays any omni capability.
Btw, I use 'hesh,' just as my own invented pronoun for anyone who does not consider themselves male or female.
I just joined a wee bit of he and she. Just laziness on my part, but I find it easier than lgbtqi etc, etc.
I just use hesh, unless an individual finds it offensive.

Seeker

↪universeness

I'm aware of the fact that it is so, it was like that for me from a young age really, therefor I'm also never too much impressed by anybody's intellectual prowess and neither am I impressed for anything I can come up with myself. However concerning TPF I'm just being realistic about how much weight I can put to the scale should it come down to it and thats fine really as I am not entirely limited, it could have been worse :smile:

Thanks for taking the time to reply.

universeness

↪Seeker

Wear your philosophy neophyte badge with pride, as I do. It actually has a high 'excuse,' currency value when I/you get philosophy projections wrong, and you get a disgruntled/impatient/exasperated response from characters like @180 Proof or @Banno or just general beratement fetishists. (Suggested member names for 'beratement fetishists,' withheld, just cause it's fun to do it that way!)
The 'but I am still a beginner here,' can be a very good defensive card to play. :smile:

Seeker

↪universeness

I havent looked at it quite like that but the idea might have some merit to it :nerd:

I know what you mean but I dont really care much for beratement in general, its a negative almost always, in general I experience such as shortcomings or even weakness on the part of the one that berates as there are far better ways to address wrong projections or any misunderstanding of logic.

universeness

↪Seeker

:clap: Well said, beratement is a weak response, that tells you more about those who employ it than they appreciate. I was almost 30 years in teaching. Beratement is one of the worse responses you can give to a student who has not (or chooses not to try to understand) understood your lesson. Beratement just displays your own frustration and your lack of ability to 'cause learning.' Trying to teach or lecture is easy, especially if you have expertise in the area. Causing learning, is a totally different skillset.
I will berate those who berate but mainly in defensive mode.

Seeker

↪universeness

Figures as beratement not only shows weakness on the part of the one doing it but also shuts down the willingness to absorb ongoing information coming from such a source. I guess it displays multiple negative character traits at once and why would one be willing to take the doings of such a character, or the things coming from such a character, as an example?!

Causing learning, is a totally different skillset. — universeness

I remember having different teachers for every new schoolyear and consequently there were schoolyears when learning equalled overal positive experiences, with a general eagerness heading off to school every morning and in which absorbing data was a natural given, while during others I absolutely dreaded the place, absorbed far less and in which I hated the ones doing the teaching.

I will berate those who berate but mainly in defensive mode — universeness

Which is understandable and an appropriate response, atleast when having enough self-respect and an appreciation for any mutual respect going on.

universeness

I remember having different teachers for every new schoolyear and consequently there were schoolyears when learning equalled overal positive experiences, with a general eagerness heading off to school every morning, in during which absorbing data was a natural given, while during others I absolutely dreaded the place, absorbed far less and in which I hated the ones doing the teaching. — Seeker

Yeah, too many teachers can be like too many cooks, it spoils the broth/confuses the student.
My main approach to teaching pupils was entertainment and as many flash/bang/whoosh moments as possible, especially from age 11 to 14 (S1 to S3).
In certificate courses, I was a little more refined, subtle in my use of humour and entertainment but the fact it was computer science and I had access to good quality software was always a big help. It was a little different with the advanced higher classes (S6), 16/17-year-olds. Your use of humour had to be 'clever' and 'relevant,' if you were trying to convince the pupils you were willing to work hard for them based on them wanting/needing to be successful in your subject.

Seeker

↪universeness

That seems to be a good (and logical) strategy for any teacher but then I guess strategy alone isnt going to cut it, you have to be somewhat of a natural to be able to stretch it that long, committed and tried at that as in the end human interaction is all about relationship. After all, the outcome of the course of all interpersonal relationships heavily depend on the mutual affection and the respect between participants, it is so during romantic relationships as well as during amicable relationships. I suppose it is no different between a teacher and students. Someone we experience as pleasant and accessible will attract us while unpleasant people repel us. Thus it is probably very logical that a teacher who is pleasant to deal with ultimately also has the most clout when it comes to the transfer of learning material.

Banno

...you get a disgruntled/impatient/exasperated response from characters like 180 Proof or @Banno — universeness

:razz:

You don't have to pay heed to this curmudgeon. But would you be happy if all your posts elicited was nodding indulgence? I hope this is the wrong forum for just that.

universeness

↪Banno

I respect all those who have the academic qualifications in philosophy, which means they can demonstrate that they have studied the topic deeply. I also respect those who do not have the academic qualifications but who can also demonstrate they have personally studied the topic deeply, so it would be folly on my part to not heed such people. BUT some folks use their talents and expertise to mentally beat up others and some other folks, use their skills to be benevolent towards others.

But would you be happy if all your posts elicited was nodding indulgence? I hope this is the wrong forum for just that. — Banno

Not nodding indulgence no, perhaps we can agree that impatient/exasperated and nodding indulgence responses are all equally unhelpful. Constructive criticism is a better approach.
I do appreciate the impatience that does come, when you have had to explain the same point to different people many, many, many times. The novelty of doing so wears very thin. The need to do so is nonetheless, an important part of being a good ambassador for the areas in which a person claims expertise or a significant depth of knowledge.

universeness

t is probably very logical that a teacher who is pleasant to deal with ultimately also has the most clout when it comes to the transfer of learning material. — Seeker

Reads like a very fair and accurate viewpoint to me.

Banno

↪universeness

Philosophy is difficult, and hence sometimes uncomfortable. While good grace is a virtue, so is being forthright.

I'm forthright, you are frank, he is tactless... (thanks, Sir Bernard Woolley).

universeness

Philosophy is difficult, and hence sometimes uncomfortable. While good grace is a virtue, so is being forthright. — Banno

Life is difficult and hence sometimes uncomfortable, but your philosophy of life does not have to be commanded totally by whatever your natural tendencies may be.
It is down to individual choice when you choose to be forthright/frank/curmudgeonly/acrimonious etc.
Natural tendency can be controlled, and a good teacher/guide/proponent of philosophy should try to be patient and supportive to those who do not have, currently, an ability to demonstrate a deep study and grasp of the topic and should also not resort to nodding indulgence.
I am merely stating my personal preference for a particular skillset in people that I would declare to be 'good at imparting philosophy.'
Was your quote from 'yes minister' simply your statement of 'hey, it takes all kinds to make a world?'

Banno

...a good teacher... — universeness

But I am not here to teach.

universeness

↪Banno

But we all do nonetheless teach here, and we all learn here. Have you learned anything since you joined TPF? If you have, then someone must have been your teacher in such instances. You also must have typed ideas, concepts, viewpoints which have caused others to modify one or more of their own viewpoints or provided them with information/data they were previously unaware of.
So, imo, we are all teachers and students here!
I have merely typed about what I consider, is the skillset of a 'good teacher.'

jorndoe

↪Seeker

, in case no one else welcomed you: welcome to. :)

Yes, you'll find grumpy old folks and angry young folks here, but more importantly smart and knowledgeable folks, too. :up:

Seeker

↪jorndoe

Thanks, appreciate it :up:

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