That's a clever, intriguing paper. Thanks. So where I above supposed that there may be two differing but agreed descriptions, the paper argues that there may be disagreement between what each observer deduces that the other observer sees; but Aaronson suggests this relies on the contradiction of a measurement not measured. — Banno
I've read through an explanation of Wigner's friend twice and can't figure it out how it applies beyond just plain old "quantum weirdness." — T Clark
Hmm. So was some sort of consensus reached as to which view was correct? — Banno
We have thus seen various proposals for how one could resolve the FR paradox. Some of them amount to giving up some of the most basic assumptions that underlie physical reasoning (like disallowing the use of standard logic, or postulating that future actions on an agent’s brain can invalidate conclusions drawn by the agent in the past). The others basically correspond to rejecting one of the explicit assumptions, Q, C, or S. — Testing quantum theory with thought experiments - Nuriya Nurgalieva and Renato Renner (section 6)
Of course, our own experience/interpretation can be compared and perhaps found wanting by others but it's real, no?
— Amity
Yes. Fictions, or interpretations, may consist of 'truth-telling lies' which (can) indicate realities. — 180 Proof
Lying can and does clearly serve a devious social purpose. It can help someone paint a better picture than the truth, or help a politician dodge an uncomfortable question. "It's unethical and it makes our democracy worse. But it's how human cognition works," says Rogers. — BBC Future
I’ll define “reality” as the state of being real. — T Clark
The state of being actual or real.
A real entity, event or other fact.
The entirety of all that is real.
An individual observer's own subjective perception of that which is real. — WordHippo
[...] It's important to recognise the distinction between different kinds of reality and their consequences. For health reasons, if nothing else. — Amity
I’ll define “reality” as the state of being real — T Clark
But if you would understand a real idea, with what woudl you contrast it? What is an unreal idea - one from the sixties? If you would understand a real sensation, then you would also understand an unreal sensation... but what would that be? In asking such questions one comes to see that the notion of "real" is misapplied to sensations and ideas. Whole volumes of bad philosophy are removed by such considerations. — Banno
1. Opposite of that which is material, tangible, or physical
2. Opposite of essential, innate or inherent to something
3. Opposite of existing independently of the mind — WordHippo
Noun
(philosophy) An abstract archetype of a given thing, compared to which real-life examples are seen as imperfect approximations; pure essence, as opposed to actual examples.
(obsolete) The conception of someone or something as representing a perfect example; an ideal.
(obsolete) The form or shape of something; a quintessential aspect or characteristic.
An image of an object that is formed in the mind or recalled by the memory.
More generally, any result of mental activity; a thought, a notion; a way of thinking.
A conception in the mind of something to be done; a plan for doing something, an intention.
A vague or fanciful notion; a feeling or hunch; an impression.
(music) A musical theme or melodic subject.
— WordHippo
In asking such questions one comes to see that the notion of "real" is misapplied to sensations and ideas. Whole volumes of bad philosophy are removed by such considerations. — Banno
What is an unreal idea - one from the sixties? — Banno
In "This ball is red," "... is red" is a function not an object..... — Srap Tasmaner
.....the characteristic function of the set of all red things. — Srap Tasmaner
To say something is observable is to privilege empiricism and to make assumptions about the observer and what is being observed. How does one rule out idealism, for instance? — Tom Storm
Santa Claus does refer, and without any annoyance I should think, if the sticker on the gift-wrapped present says “from: Santa”. And if considered from the standard subject/copula/predicate logical propositional format, any conception contained in a predicate, and is thereby the object of it, must refer to its subject. — Mww
Taking the concept of reality out of the equation for a moment, I believe we can assert with confidence that there exists variation in the way things are organized in the universe; meaning that we can be certain that there exist things different and separate from themselves and our bodies - the distribution of whatever it is that makes that which we call the universe is not isotropic. Even if this variation is real or not, it exists (no matter what real means, there is variation); it is undeniable, even from the human perspective, since the fact that there are things different from me implies that I am different from them - none of the schools of philosophy can exist without variation/difference/variety. In fact, any kind of organizing process, if that makes any sense, is unable to exist without variation - for how can there be any kind of organization in an absolutely isotropic quality/entity/substance? Now, to me, it seems this variation is ubiquitous across all levels of organization that pertain to the sciences, math, and logic, and I would say there is nothing more real than that, but again, it might not even be. — Daniel
Wigner-grade "quantum weirdness" is when Wigner's friend in the lab is in a superposition of having measured state 0 and having measured state 1. From the friend's point-of-view, the wave function has collapsed whereas from Wigner's point-of-view, it has not. — Andrew M
Santa Claus is a real fictional character..... — Srap Tasmaner
When the tag on the present is signed "from: Santa" that's supposed to mean it's from the person — Srap Tasmaner
That's what I mean when I say "reference": an expression that picks out one of the objects in the world. Santa is not one of the objects in the world, so the expression "Santa Claus" does not refer. We pretend it does. — Srap Tasmaner
find nothing wrong with using mere conceptions to refer — Mww
Wonderful faculty....imagination. Always in use, seldom given its due respect. — Mww
We must inspire good ideals in others to prevent them from succumbing to depression and suicide. If we value their life that is. Which we should. :) — Benj96
How does one rule out idealism you say? My answer to that is why would you want to rule out idealism? Idealism stands as a goal, a noble one at that. — Benj96
Sorry, I was referring to philosophical idealism (all that exists is consciousness and materialism is just mind when viewed from a particular perspective) as per Schopenhauer, Berkeley, Hegel, Schelling, and these days Kastrup and Hoffman — Tom Storm
It is one thing to imagine a way of proving Fermat's last theorem, and then spend years actualizing that proof..... — Srap Tasmaner
.......another to have written out some mathematics you mistakenly imagine is a proof of Fermat's last theorem. — Srap Tasmaner
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