Language and logic are synonyms. This boils down to saying you can’t practice cognition outside of language. — ucarr
Language and formal logic are no more synonyms than language and fortran. The latter is a specific use of language. Language is a human extension of perceptual interaction with the world, and is continuous with perception , which is already conceptual and cognitive prior to the learning of a language. Our embodied perceptual-motor interaction with the world plays a large role in the origin of the structure of linguistic grammar. Animal cognition already implies a spatial-temporal ‘grammar’.Language and logic are synonyms. This boils down to saying you can’t practice cognition outside of language. — ucarr
Language and formal logic are no more synonyms than language and fortran. — Joshs
Language is a human extension of perceptual interaction with the world, and is continuous with perception, which is already conceptual and cognitive prior to the learning of a language. — Joshs
...perceptual_already conceptual and cognitive prior to_language. — Joshs
Language and formal logic are no more synonyms than language and fortran. The latter is a specific use of language. — Joshs
Language is a human extension of perceptual interaction with the world, and is continuous with perception , which is already conceptual and cognitive prior to the learning of a language. Our embodied perceptual-motor interaction with the world plays a large role in the origin of the structure of linguistic grammar. Animal cognition already implies a spatial-temporal ‘grammar’. — Joshs
...logic is not a language, but a component of language... — Hanover
Logic, then, being an attribute of language, stands subordinate to language. This feels intuitively like something useful to my argument, but, first, I must ask how symbolic logic can stand alone (which it can) without being its own language? — ucarr
I disagree that "formal logic" and "Fortran" are similarly related to language in that both represent specific uses of the language.
I see formal logic as the semantical component of language, which does not represent a structure , but a meaning, whereas Fortran is a specific syntactical language form used to convey a semantical meaning. Under any language (Fortran, French, English), you will need to adhere to a logical based semantics for coherence, but the form can vary among types of languages. That is, logic is not a language, but a component of language, whereas Fortran is a type of language. — Hanover
I agree with you to the extent you suggest that there are all types of thought without language, but I believe your example of "how to" language points to the least controversial one that is generally conceded by the staunchest of deniers of meaningful thought without language. — Hanover
Causal understanding of water displacement by a crow
It seems that the crow is using cognition. If the crow has no language, then it is using cognition outside of language. — RussellA
In this context, I note that language is expanded in scope to include all of the sensory forms of signification (sight, sound, touch, taste, smell). — ucarr
If you can say it, you can think it — ucarr
I think the preposition can be labeled as being a particular type of conjunction. It is the conjunction of (among other categories) space and time — ucarr
I infer you've concluded the video shows no practice of language by the crow. — ucarr
However, birds, as well as other animals do have language, in the sense that their calls, postures and other behaviours do convey information to other birds and animals, such as location of predators and sources of food. — RussellA
Chinese, for example, has a different set of linguistic conventions for dealing with the prepositional context. "Dao wo zher lai" means "come to me", but does not actually contain any word which would translate directly as a preposition in English. — alan1000
I think he would agree that the perception of logical connection is essentially non-verbal, and language follows later as an attempt to communicate the logical connection to others — alan1000
So, American Sign Language, for example, is a perfectly valid language but me making a cup of tea or physically showing you how to do that, more analogical to your crow example, is not. — Baden
There are two main theories as to how language evolved. Either i) as an evolutionary adaptation or ii) a by-product of evolution and not a specific adaptation. — RussellA
I think he (ucarr) would agree that the perception of logical connection is essentially non-verbal, and language follows later as an attempt to communicate the logical connection to others. — alan1000
What is language for if not conveying information ? — RussellA
Our views differ in terms of the quantum vs. the continuum. Baden says the boundary between linguistic and non-linguistic is quantum; I say it is continuum. — ucarr
The sentence "come here" doesn't contain any preposition, yet signifies a spatio-temporal relation. — RussellA
Passing wind may convey information as may a million other non-linguistic events. — Baden
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