It sounds as if you're reifying 'potential energy'. — Bartricks
But force is just as much immaterial as "mental event" is. So in any case, mental event or not, we still need dualism to account for energy transfer. — Metaphysician Undercover
Perhaps the thought instead is that in order for A to have caused B, then some energy would need to be transferred - for all causal transactions, it is now being supposed, involve a transfer of energy. But that is not part of the principle of the conservation of energy. That's a new and distinct claim about the nature of causation. — Bartricks
The truth is, 'conservation of energy' is not true. In reality all transactions of energy lose some energy and this is why 'perpetual motion' is unobtainable — Metaphysician Undercover
So 'conservation of energy' is not true, and the second law of thermodynamics has been proposed as an amendment, a way to account for lost energy. And since the second law of thermodynamics is a proposal meant to amend the falsity of another law, it is actually false itself. — Metaphysician Undercover
Transactions of energy from A to B lose energy from the |AB| system as heat, light and sound energy (usually due to unavoidable friction).
That doesn't mean energy conservation isn't true. It just means not all energy in A can be transformed perfectly into B (perpetual motion) without loss to C - the external environment (unless that environment is a frictionless/gravitiless environment - of which outerspace is a close but not perfect fit for those conditions). — Benj96
Not only that but the transaction of energy from A to B doesn't even have to be a loss. It can be a gain - from C.
If a cold cup of water is put in a hot room, the hot room heats up (gives energy) to the cold cup system (A - the container and B the water) until the heat in the cup and the heat in the room are equal and balanced, and energy is exchanged equally in both directions, constantly. — Benj96
The sum of energy in any system |AB| plus C (the environment/ system encapsulating |AB| is conserved. — Benj96
If you don't believe that you would have to challenge all of physics based on the laws of thermodynamics (which is a lot) which I doubt will get you very far in proving without undoing all the useful technology (like fridges and AC) that work because of those principles. — Benj96
That is just a completely unproven assumption. In fact, it has been proven to be false. You assume that the lost energy actually exists somewhere else, and is measurable in that form, somewhere, however it exists. But it has really been proven that this is false. — Metaphysician Undercover
Despite all sorts of attempts to find it, all of the lost energy has never ever been located — Metaphysician Undercover
You could say that some of the heat from the room is lost to the outside, but if you go outside and make measurements, you will not find it all. — Metaphysician Undercover
That's exactly the assumption which has been proven to be false, as explained above. — Metaphysician Undercover
As I said, the laws of thermodynamics include the second law, which accounts for the loss of energy with entropy. But the second law is just as false as the law of conservation, because it assumes that the lost energy still exists as energy, when it does not. — Metaphysician Undercover
Can you send me a reference to that proof then? — Benj96
Of course you can. Set up an infrared camera outside the room and you'll see the heat energy lost from the room. — Benj96
The only proof you've provided is personal opinion. — Benj96
Entropy is the tendency for energy to disperse further afield. Down a gradiant from high energy to a more widespread low energy state. The energy can't disappear it just keeps spreading out until it becomes matter (still energy). — Benj96
The second law of thermodynamics states that as energy is transferred or transformed, more and more of it is wasted. — https://www.livescience.com/50941-second-law-thermodynamics.html
We can just agree to disagree if you'd like? But so far you haven't convinced me of your explanation and I cited several examples to the contrary. — Benj96
So the conclusion is inductive, some energy is always lost. — Metaphysician Undercover
. You are the one being silly, suggesting that a mere infrared camera could capture all the energy lost from a room. — Metaphysician Undercover
You have cited exactly zero examples of an experiment in which all of the energy available prior to an event has been accounted for after the event. — Metaphysician Undercover
Your example of an infrared camera is simply ridiculous. — Metaphysician Undercover
The truth is, 'conservation of energy' is not true. — Metaphysician Undercover
How is that the only inductive reasoning possible? It could be this case. But it could also be that not all the energy can be measured.
Does something not exist because it can't be measured?
Does my internal state of mind not exist to you because it cannot all be measured at once? Except by me - considering only I hold my memories, beliefs and emotions (my personal consciousness). — Benj96
I didn't say it could capture all the energy lost from the room did I? — Benj96
In that way you can calculate with reasonable accuracy to account for the remaining heat energy you haven't picked up on the camera. And you can prove it by reference to the dropping temperature within the room. You can say okay at this rate the room will drop by 1 degree celcius every 30 minutes until it reaches ambient (outside) temperature. — Benj96
Sum the heat released (energy) with the remaining masjids (energy) and it should equal the sum of the mass and chemical energy of the original food. — Benj96
Why do physicists believe it is then? When given the choice to throw out the conservation of energy or cartesian dualism, they tend to throw out the latter. — Down The Rabbit Hole
You say, "it should equal...", and that is according to the law of conservation. The fact is, that it never does. That is the "waste" which was referred to in the statement of the second law which I provided. — Metaphysician Undercover
Actually, energy is not something measured. — Metaphysician Undercover
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