Clearly there is a wide area of middle ground that for some reason is difficult for us to realise and explore. — I like sushi
Not consenting to live is like not consenting that gravity keeps my feet on the ground. — I like sushi
To argue not to have have children is an action that may or may not reduce ‘suffering’. We are in no position to say with any real authority what is ‘better’ only to make personal judgements that sit well with us as an individual among other individuals. — I like sushi
It just does not make sense to use that term here. I can understand why you can, with some force, make it appear as wholly applicable to ‘living’ but it is just a term used loosely and no matter how hard it is forced it does not hold up for me. — I like sushi
I don't think parents believe they are responsible for the things they are causing — Andrew4Handel
Is there a way to frame all this to something beneath the concepts involved like a mathematical equation? — Andrew4Handel
By imposition vis-à-vis life do you mean no one was/is/will be asked whether s/he wishes to be born? — Agent Smith
It is impossible indeed — javi2541997
By imposition vis-à-vis life do you mean no one was/is/will be asked whether s/he wishes to be born? — Agent Smith
I was wondering schopenhauer1, how subjective is pain & pleasure? — Agent Smith
It doesn't matter as far as I am concerned, towards the imposition (comply or die) argument. — schopenhauer1
I agree that life on Earth is not an idylic Garden of Eden, but as you implied, we human care-takers are assiduously working to improve a less-than-perfect situation. We haven't eradicated suffering and unequal distribution of benefits, but Philosophical Pessimism is not going to produce a Utopia. On another thread, I've been engaged with pessimists in a Science vs Religion debate. Whereas most Religions put their faith in all-powerful gods or nature spirits to alleviate their suffering, modern Science is learning to control the vicissitudes of nature directly via Technology. Even so, some posters remain pessimistic in the face of implacable & all-powerful thermodynamic Entropy driving the world toward destruction. However, I am endorsing Enformy*1 as an inherent positive counter-agent to Entropy.that the issues brought up by pessimists do seem true, yet life is getting better because of these truths and the work our forefathers and science and the new age positivists are making the world better off. — Shawn
Whose pessimism is being overcome but at what cost and to whom? — 180 Proof
And yet dukkha remains despite the high-tech hedonic treadmill of modern mass consumerism and televangelism. — 180 Proof
Existential dread, my friend, of which pessimism is an expression, is the ineluctable condition to be endured and not a (technoscientific) problem to be solved (by "progress"). — 180 Proof
My intuition is that pessimism (which I share many sympathies with) is very much person dependent. Some people are more predisposed to such views, others are not. — Manuel
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