I don't think use of marijuana is ipso facto hedonistic, if by this you mean sensually self-indulgent. I think a lot of people use to it to help make the daily grind of life more bearable and return to the task of supporting themselves and their family.

I would like to make an important point here, that this (as of recent) liberalization of drug policies has been driven from grassroot movements in America. I believe this trend will continue unabated. Do you believe so also? — Shawn

It's just another shift in the choice of self-medication/escapism/thrill-seeking. Prohibition didn't stop the use of alcohol; criminalization didn't stop the use of other mood-altering chemicals.

Some Americans have always had access to luxuries in food, drink, smoke, sexual pleasures and leisure time activities. The less privileged have always partaken of whatever kind of indulgence was available to them. I don't see a quantitative change in self-indulgent behaviour, only in the venues whereby escape mechanisms are made available.

All I know is that legal Marijuana will in all likelihood be regulated by the FDA. Expect to see novel modes of delivery and safety + quality control. Isn't that awesome?

Hedonism is our schtick - if there's anything we humans are good at, it's how to have fun. We're fun-loving creatures!

I don't see a quantitative change in self-indulgent behaviour, only in the venues whereby escape mechanisms are made available. — Vera Mont

Even though the hoi polloi collected and organized, contacted their representatives and then legalized hemp and cannabis across US states? I credit this with Obama allowing states to decide if they wanted cannabis for themselves, which seemingly is pointing to a trend of drug liberalization in US politics.

For the most part, the feds don't want to touch drugs in my opinion. Let them have cake, no?

All I know is that legal Marijuana will in all likelihood be regulated by the FDA. Expect to see novel modes of delivery and safety + quality control. Isn't that awesome? — Agent Smith

Yes, it's still to my astonishment that I can buy 3.5g or 1/8 oz. of cannabis at a local dispensary. They can deliver it to my residence.

Hedonism is our schtick - if there's anything we humans are good at, it's how to have fun. We're fun-loving creatures! — Agent Smith

Yes, and one of the most addicted of all animals.

:100:

For the most part, the feds don't want to touch drugs in my opinion. Let them have cake, no? — Shawn

So much for Nixon's War on Drugs. Good. It was a sneaky, awful, hideously expensive political idea that resulted in huge injustices.

. Expect to see novel modes of delivery and safety + quality control. Isn't that awesome? — Agent Smith

It would be awesome for the state, for sure. They now want to make it legal because they will earn a lot of profits through the taxes implemented on marijuana lots. Unless it's free...

Agreed!

I'm sure the FDA has already asked marijuana companies to stick a MARIJUANA KILLS sticker on their products.

I'm sure the FDA has already asked marijuana companies to stick a MARIJUANA KILLS sticker on their products. — Agent Smith

Exactly! They are hypocrites as much as when they sell tobacco packets

Exactly! They are hypocrites as much as when they sell tobacco packets — javi2541997

Which actually brings us to another question, but why derail this thread.

I think it indicates that the American population is traumatised and self-medicating with anything it can get to reduce the pain and get through the day. It is at best misleading to call that 'hedonism'.

They are taught that if they are not rich, beautiful and happy they are themselves to blame, and the weight of guilt they are made to feel for the structural inequality of society, which adds to the trauma of an isolating uncaring community rife with desperate poverty, homelessness and violence set amongst images of fabulous wealth and beauty unavailable to them.

But I wouldn't know really, I've never been there and never will.

Definitely! :up: Monoculture / McWorld has been spreading around the globe for many years. There’s only a couple hundred square miles yet to be conquered. Viva modern man!

Consumerism backed by Capitalism sanctioned by Civilization anointed by Christianity.

That is, consume the whole planet so we can live like royalty because economists much smarter than us have shown that the “free market” is the best way to assert our dominance over primative peoples, animals, and the hunk of raw material we call Earth. This whole mess is anointed holy and good, and white-washed by a corrupt Church seeking worldly power. The only thing more corrupt and hypocritical is the government legalizing this galactic pyramid-building scam.

How can you blow up the Death Star when you’re living on it?

But this may be veering onto larger or different topics. I actually think hemp / cannabis are wonderful things and have been unfairly repressed and cruelly punished.

My wild guess is that weed tends to make people a little more reflective, peaceful and content. We can’t have that in a “Make War-Get More” society. It’d wreck the whole scheme!

I think it indicates that the American population is traumatised and self-medicating with anything it can get to reduce the pain and get through the day. It is at best misleading to call that 'hedonism'.

They are taught that if they are not rich, beautiful and happy they are themselves to blame, and the weight of guilt they are made to feel for the structural inequality of society, which adds to the trauma of an isolating uncaring community rife with desperate poverty, homelessness and violence set amongst images of fabulous wealth and beauty unavailable to them. — unenlightened

I'd counter that the pain caused by not being wealthy or beautiful is not apparent in smoking cannabis. If that were true, is Canada also traumatized with its own legalization of cannabis and burgeoning industry related to cannabis consumption? I know Holland is pretty calm in most regards; but, they have the most liberal laws for drugs.

Anyway, I think it is a victory for the hoi polloi, and there is some truth to your claims; but, not entirely true.

America is a great country and if it wishes to endorse and promote unfettered hedonism, I'm not gonna complain. God bless America! What exactly is wrong/right about cannabis anyway? Enlighten us simpletons o ye who knows!

Self medication is useful and ameliorates various things: anxiety, depression, stress etc. But like anything must be respected and used responsibly.

Unfettered hedonism is equivalent to us all being heroin addicts laying about in a state of opioid induced bliss. That obviously does not resolve anything - not only because it's dangerous, overdose can lead to someone ceasing to breathe, but on a larger scale, everyone would be unproductive, preferring to enjoy pure pleasure/reward without putting in any work to achieve it.

There's a reason people on heroin steal to bolster/maintain their high. Because they're so focused on the high they'll take the shortest of shortcuts to get back to it.

So unfettered hedonism I believe is not the answer. Who takes responsibility for the shit while others live hedonistically?

Healthy hedonism comes from functionality in society - productivity, salary, travel, gourmet food, wine, Netflix, sex etc. With heroin as a stand in for pure hedonism, nothing else can meet those feels.

So it seems pleasure ought to be a slow burn not a sudden high, catastrophic low and then sudden high again.

Cannabis is not as potent as heroin. Many can use it in their leisure time, vibe, and wake up the next day and go to work, and not be consumed by thinking about their next cannabis high with every waking moment. Alcohol is similar. Both have extreme cases of course where their use is so abused that it impacts on daily life and interpersonal relationships and work.

Some drugs are hedonistic in restraint and should be allowed as some semblance of control and functionality is very much possible with their use.

But this does not apply to all drugs. I don't know of many accounts of heroin use where the person is still functional in society.

Colorado has legalized psychedelic mushrooms. Now what?

Not about hedonism; but, more about therapy with psychedelics.

I see yer point. I went overboard with the idea of "Americans are becoming more hedonistic". However, America isn't the same as Lesbo and Sodom. America is America! She can perform delicate microsurgery while she has multiple orgasms. :cool:

What exactly is wrong/right about cannabis anyway? — Agent Smith

It is still be a drug. It doesn't matter if cannabis is "soft" compared to cocaine or heroine. The only problem I see regarding the legalisation of drugs, more specifically psychedelics, is that the State is acting as a hypocrite. There were always been tons of advertisements against drug use. Now, it seems to be "ok" to consume them because the State sees it as profitable. As I said: it is wrong because it is full of hypocrisy.
The real aim of a public administration is to promote the health care of the citizens. You would not reach that if you decide to legalised psychedelics. If someone says those drugs are not painful to you, they are clearly lying.

An old question pops to mind - Is the apotheosis of Bentham-Mill-ianism Kantianism, ethically that is?

Is the apotheosis of Bentham-Mill-ianism Kantianism, ethically that is? — Agent Smith

It is a good question, indeed. But I am not able to answer you because I don't have deep knowledge in German philosophy. Sorry, friend!

No problemo!

It is still be a drug — javi2541997

Many things are drugs: coffee (caffeine) , chocolate (theobromine, methylxanthine), alcohol, MSG (umami flavour which is broken down into a neurotransmitter) and many more.

They're also foods and beverages. Others are not directly acting drugs but behaviour as sources of addiction as they cause a dopamine hit: sugar, social media, massages, sex (dopamine and oxytocin) , extreme sports release adrenaline and endorphins. Many of these things give of a euphoric feeling, increased alertness, a feeling of calm or lack of anxiety.

What makes one natural/organic consumable (cannabis) any worse than others (tobacco, coffee, alcohol, sugar etc).

The distinction is more or less arbitrary. It is based on the current culture, and thus laws. And culture is full of hypocrisy, otherwise how do we ever change laws, make illegal things legal rights, how do we ever progress?

Of course governments are hypocrites in that they used to burn witches, exile scientists as heretics, stone women and gay men to death. And now they are back tracking on those and making them human rights.

The same goes for drugs. Psychedelics have shown great potential to combat depression and PTSD. Does that mean we should maintain their illegal status just to prevent us being hypocrites? Rather then considering how they can be used better?

Many things are drugs: coffee (caffeine) , chocolate (theobromine, methylxanthine), alcohol, MSG (umami flavour which is broken down into a neurotransmitter) and many more. — Benj96

To be honest, I don't see coffee or chocolate as painful as cannabis or alcohol would be.

Rather then considering how they can be used better? — Benj96

Absolutely. I wasn't complaining about psychedelics themselves but the role of the public administration in this issue. I am complaining about the possible taxation in this issue, not the effect of a correct use of those drugs.

May be we have deadlier stuff to worry abut than cannabis sativa! Om Namoh Shiva! :pray:

Absolutely. I wasn't complaining about psychedelics themselves but the role of the public administration in this issue. I am complaining about the possible taxation in this issue, not the effect of a correct use of those drugs. — javi2541997

What if the revenue generated from the sale of legalised taxable drugs went directly to rehabilitation centers, public health campaigning, AAA meetings and support systems to discourage abuse/misuse of drugs?

Would that make you a bit more comfortable about the administrations use of the profits? It would be a self fullfilling cycle. The more drugs are used (sales) the stronger the counter argument would become by direct provision to systems of rebuttal?

Perhaps that dynamic would stabilise the use and abuse of drugs. The need and awareness of rehab would grow in direct proportion with the need for/consumption of drugs. And diminish in proportion to the effects of offsetting addiction.

Not about hedonism; but, more about therapy with psychedelics. — Shawn

Was your experience with psychedelics positive? (If I may ask)

Was your experience with psychedelics positive? (If I may ask) — 0 thru 9

Mostly, no. It's not for everyone, and I suffered psychosis from psilocybin. It should be noted that there's a bias towards reporting positive experiences on the internet that makes psychedelics look warm and friendly, even if you're down and depressed internally, which can contribute to a bad trip.

How about you?

If Russians have vodka, Americans have drugs. In both cases it isn't outrageous conspiracy theory that alcohol & drugs are used to keep the masses in control. Twice in history has the Russian leadership tried in their stupidity to take the bottle away from the Russian people. Both times the state collapsed. Not that it wasn't a big issue as every fifth Russian male dies due to alcohol related causes. I guess if the American leadership would really take drugs (including prescription medication for pain and mental health) away from the American people, the US would experience similar turmoil. One should not forget that not all drugs are illegal.