I took this as "I am conscious, and I came into being in the Universe, so therefore the Universe is capable of giving rise to something conscious." Which, as far as I know, can't really be proven, only experienced with an n=1.We know from ourselves that our universe is a consciousness-bearing universe. — ucarr
"I am conscious, and I came into being in the Universe, so therefore the Universe is capable of giving rise to something conscious." Which, as far as I know, can't really be proven, only experienced with an n=1. — tomatohorse
There is an issue with this claim that can be labeled the point-of-contact Venn diagram problem — ucarr
Point-of-contact precludes parallelism and thus all relationships assume positive values of sameness between inter-related things. — ucarr
I do not understand atheism as an "ideology" or as derived from "axioms". One who claims, as I do, that theism is demonstrably not true and, therefore, disbelieves in every theistic deity, is an atheist. — 180 Proof
... atheism doesn't dictate any particular position on how (or whether) the universe began... only that whatever it is, God had nothing to do with it. — busycuttingcrap
We know from ourselves that our universe is a consciousness-bearing universe.
— ucarr
I don't dispute this, but others will, so I think that proving this should be your starting point. — RogueAI
↪RogueAI
We know from ourselves that our universe is a consciousness-bearing universe.
— ucarr
I took this as "I am conscious, and I came into being in the Universe, so therefore the Universe is capable of giving rise to something conscious." Which, as far as I know, can't really be proven, only experienced with an n=1. — tomatohorse
"I am conscious, and I came into being in the Universe, so therefore the Universe is capable of giving rise to something conscious." Which, as far as I know, can't really be proven, only experienced with an n=1.
— tomatohorse
That's actually a proof. It is not proven in an a priori way, but in an a posteriori or empirical way, but it's still a proof. — god must be atheist
I suspect a statistically significant number (certainly not all) of atheists practice their atheism as a kind of secular Protestantism. — ucarr
Only a "theistic" origin of the universe is "excluded". Atheism does not reject other possibilities (e.g. pandeism, acosmism, eternal inflation, etc).Atheism excludes God as creator of the material universe. — ucarr
No.Does that not make atheism a theory of what the origin of the universe is not?
One more time for the slow ones way in the back: atheism is disbelief in theistic deities (& stories) If the material universe was "created", then an atheist only states "I disbelieve stories of 'the universe created by a theistic deity'". This is an epistemological commitment and not a "metaphysical claim" (whatever that means).[Atheism]'s a metaphysical claim says, “God did not create the material universe.”
Nonsense. That's like saying 'celibacy is no less a sex position than sodomy'. :roll: :confused: :sweat:[ ... ] Thus atheism as to the why and how of existence is no less an article of faith than is theism.
I suspect a statistically significant number (certainly not all) of atheists practice their atheism as a kind of secular Protestantism.
— ucarr
I'm curious what this means, exactly; can you say more? — busycuttingcrap
Only a "theistic" origin of the universe is "excluded". — 180 Proof
...an atheist only states "I disbelieve stories of 'the universe created by a theistic deity'". This is an epistemological commitment and not a "metaphysical claim" (whatever that means). — 180 Proof
I wasn't asking for definitions of statistical significance or Protestantism, I was asking you what exactly "practicing atheism as a kind of secular Protestantism" involves or consists of. What does this look like, in practice? — busycuttingcrap
I was asking you what exactly "practicing atheism as a kind of secular Protestantism" involves or consists of. What does this look like, in practice? — busycuttingcrap
A secular protestant... — ucarr
[ ... ] Thus atheism as to the why and how of existence is no less an article of faith than is theism.
Nonsense. That's like saying 'celibacy is no less a sex position than sodomy'. :roll: — 180 Proof
Many atheists I know have had church weddings, — Tom Storm
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