1) religious people believe that the world comes from a spiritual source. They all agree on that. Whether they agree or not on religious manifestations (religions) they are not atheists because they believe in the spiritual source. Obviously! So bad argument 1 answered — Gregory
2) you say faith cannot accomplish a miracle. Well prayer is not perfect most of the time and if faith is not strong enough for a specific miracle God still grants more than what is asked for. You can't always see God's work Simple. — Gregory
:lol: How much of your personal time are you offering me?Any other concerns?
I'm really only interested in what we do to each other here and now. :wink: — Tom Storm
The human race has had science since before it was human. It has been using science from the very beginning; for about 5 million years. Somewhere in there, they learned to use fire, altered bones, skins, stones, logs and reeds for their purposes and established settled communities. — Vera Mont
The rate of technical advancement is increasing at a far bigger rate than it did in the majority of the 300,000+ years of the existence of the human race.What will happen in the 50 years that could have happened, and didn't, in the past 6000? — Vera Mont
:grin: Don't worry, that doomsday clock will tick for another billion trillion years of human existence.We are not on the cosmic calendar; we are on the doomsday clock. I'll be out of you way soon enough. — Vera Mont
I would choose to live now if offered to live in any past era. In fact, I would choose to be born in the distant future if I could make such a choice. Our future is not restricted to this planet.Our distant ancestors lived on a far more hospitable and generous planet than our descendants will have. — Vera Mont
And so will the priests. Amen. — Olivier5
No, not all definitions define progress as "simply going forward, — Lambert Strether
I can think of no reason why it should. Or even learn any language at all.and even if they did, the Universe would have no care about earthling(s) definition of it — Lambert Strether
I sad nothing whatever about 'development'. Nose and toes pointing the same way, one foot before the other, repeat. That's forward progress, whether the destination - known or unknown - is Disneyland or a swamp.particularly since it shows many more signs of entropy, not development (even if that use of forward was the one) — Lambert Strether
One can also (alternatively, as another possibility) one could see three individual items, or a row of items, or a puzzle, or an encrypted message. The one who does the seeing need not be familiar with this alphabet and so interpret those images as pictograms for a house, a woman and a bundle of laundry. And one could meditate on that until he lost his mind...., I guess.There's a point to Lambert Strether's remark. If I place A, B, C in that particular sequence, one begins to see growth/advancement in the series so arranged i.e. one instinctively feels C > B > A. — Agent Smith
Are we making any progress? — Agent Smith
Of one kind. The trouble with dictionaries..... — Vera Mont
Report what progress we've made. — Agent Smith
You can flip that however, you need the however for a comparator.I enjoy this stuff, yeah! However, there's always a however, eh? — Agent Smith
In what sense do you employ the word 'spiritual' he — universeness
The topic of this thread seems to be based on a Category Error : assuming that materialistic Science and spiritualistic Religion are competing in the same game, on the same field. Even Aristotle, who was not known for promoting Religion, placed his scientific observations (Physics) into a different chapter from his philosophical commentary (Metaphysics). But conflation of categories is typical of 180's polarized polemics.Maximum entropy (omega) is the terminus of all sequences. "Progress" is a parochial illusion like the apparent flatness of the Earth. — 180 Proof
The net entropy, you're right on the money, increases. Was there any order to begin with or was it always chaos and then more chaos? Gnomon. — Agent Smith
The topic of this thread seems to be based on a Category Error : assuming that materialistic Science and spiritualistic Religion are competing in the same game, on the same field. — Gnomon
Consider the rise in fundamentalist Islam that has been well documented in the naughties and perhaps the key role of white Christian evangelicals in the crass and lamentable Trump phenomenon? — Tom Storm
Aren't you assuming it's rational to leave religion in the first place? — Gregory
Can I ask if you find theism unpalatable? — Gregory
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