Why worry about THE unseen ultimate metaphysical Cause? Why not just accept what we know about obvious median physical causes? In his non-science writing, Isaac Newton freely admitted his belief in "God" as the ultimate "Why"*1. But, regarding the mysterious force of Gravity, he avoided the ancient-but-un-scientific metaphysical dodge of "god did it", which doesn't explain how that spooky-action-at-a-distance happens*2. For the same reason, claiming that "Chance is The Cause", is un-scientific, because it doesn't explain how Randomness can result in rationally knowable Patterns of Organization. In human experience, order arises from Intention, not accident*3. Science is intended to Specify Proximate causation, but Philosophy attempts to Generalize about Ultimate causation*4. :smile:The point of course is to shed metaphysical baggage and isolate and purify and zero in on The Cause. — Agent Smith
:smirk:... matter of fact, it's all dark.
Yes. Enformy is an anomaly*1, in a process characterized mostly by Entropy. Yet, you could say that it's "the exception that proves the rule". The 'rule' being emergence of organization despite the obstacle of Entropy. Also, the progressive pattern of Enformy has been consistent in our own backyard for billions of years. And exponentially progressive human Culture is an anomaly within gradually evolving Nature.So, in a sense, this Enformy (order) is a "pattern" in Entropy (chaos). 180 Proof would agree, I recall him saying something to the effect that order is (merely) a phase in chaos. — Agent Smith
:lol: If you get the physics so wrong, G-mon, then your "Meta-physics" is bound to be ... not even wrong.... emergence of organization despite the obstacle of Entropy.
With those anti-entropy developments in mind ... — Gnomon
"when you discover an anomaly, look for the cause". — Gnomon
fyi: Order (i.e. dissipative structures / processes) emerges because of – as it increases – the asymmetric gradient of entropy. — 180 Proof
Yes. — 180 Proof
In science, an Anomaly is a "glitch" : data that contradicts the norm. Literally, the word means "irregular" ; metaphorically it means : "does not fit the expected pattern". The link below indicates that new paradigms ("new physics") in science typically emerge from discovery of anomaly. So, what I'm saying here is that Enformy is not what you would expect from the typical definition of Thermodynamics. If Entropy was so all-powerful, the Big Bang would have snuffed-out in a few light-seconds -- like New Year's fireworks. But contrary to expectations, after billions of solar years, it continues to expand, and to self-organize, and to produce living globs of thinking matter, that ask "why" questions. Don't you think that anomaly demands an explanation? :smile:"when you discover an anomaly, look for the cause". — Gnomon
What is an anomaly? Why does it beg/demand for an explanation? — Agent Smith
The contrasting graphs are illustrations -- no math required to see the implication. Obviously, I just turned the original graph up-side-down, to figuratively demonstrate the difference between 180's worldview and my own. In terms of meaning though, the graphs are not identical. One shows Entropy completely dissipating Energy from an initial state of order to a state of utter disorder. The other portrays Neg-entropy (Enformy) organizing raw Energy (potential) into the elaborate structures that we see all around us. The up-side-down graph is what you would get if you place a minus sign in front of the Entropy equation to represent Neg-entropy (Enformy).Please brush up on your math - the graphs are identical, but I know what you wished to convey and perhaps you thought your audience would be smart enough to do the math themselves. — Agent Smith
Yes. According to my non-scientific thesis, the Origin of our universe (closed system), which began with all the energy it would ever have*1, implies energy & regulatory input from outside the system. But other theories assume the eternal existence of Energy & Laws (Potential + Logos), from which our little 'verse obtained its head start. One version of that notion is the Multiverse Theory, asserting that Ultimate Reality has been recycling its energy & laws forever. Unfortunately, that is not an empirically testable theory, hence Philosophy instead of Science. Another hypothesis is Cosmic Inflation*2, which assumes that Space & Time have existed forever, along with the potential energy presumed to be inherent in Empty Space. Yet, again there is no way to confirm that speculation.There's this riddle if youtube videos are to be believed that scientists haven't yet solved: why was the early universe in a low entropy state? Must be the Enformer. — Agent Smith
Have you heard of Boltzmann brains? Read, quite interesting and might help buttress your argument for Enformy. — Agent Smith
:sweat:... to figuratively demonstrate the difference between 180's worldview and my own. — Gnomon
I'm no Kantian but an "anonaly" revealed by our model represents a limit or an inconsistency of our model rather than an "anomaly in itself" (whatever that means).What is an anomaly? — Agent Smith
It only "demands" that we update our model.Why does it beg/demand for an explanation?
Same reason, I guess, you can't make an omelette without breaking eggs ... and ... (N+1) system-states > (1) system-state in a non/linear dynamic system. :fire:... why was the early universe in a low entropy state? — Agent Smith
180disproof :joke: likes to throw-out abstruse stuff that he knows you & I are not familiar with. And I suspect -- brilliant as he is -- 180poo doesn't understand those esoteric math & physics conjectures himself. As usual, this ploy misses the point of my personal philosophical thesis. Which does not "purport" to be a scientific explanation of anything.There's a lot yet to explain in cosmology/cosmogony/astronomy. Did you read 180 Proof's reply to me? There are some mathematical models which purport to account for the low entropy state of the universe - our universe is a white hole who's low entropy state is offset and exceeded by the high entropy state of a black hole "at the opposite end". That would mean your Enformy is actually entropy (of the black hole paired with our universe). — Agent Smith
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