I thinks it's misaligning expectations with reality that causes, or increases, suffering. 'Truth hurts' only ego and vanity ... — 180 Proof
:fire:Nirvana then is not about exiting samsara, but about understanding what it is. I met the Buddha, we all have ... we just didn't recognize him. :cool: — Agent Smith
expectations are a part of reality. So, there is a subtle dualism in Buddhism. What is outside us, we should accept and/or have no expectations about. What is inside us, well, that we need to change.I thinks it's misaligning expectations with reality that causes, or increases, suffering. 'Truth hurts' only ego and vanity ... — 180 Proof
.....yes, I met the Buddha, recognized him, but found him judgmental and dualist in a way that I dislike and that I don't think he quite notices. I have sympathy for his concerns and intentions. But ultimately I consider him part of the problem.I met the Buddha, we all have (there are more molecules in a cup of water than there are cups in all the waters of the world), we just didn't recognize him. :cool:
4 hours ago — Agent Smith
.....yes, I met the Buddha, recognized him, but found him judgmental and dualist in a way that I dislike and that I don't think he quite notices. I have sympathy for his concerns and intentions. But ultimately I consider him part of the problem. — Bylaw
. I can get how this can even seem non-judgmental and compassionate, but in the end it is a form of practiced self-hatred, just as Christianity tries to teach a hatred of sexual urges. But compared to Buddhism Christianity is generally explicit and thuglike. — Bylaw
I don't think so. No. And the suffering does not go away in Buddhism.Well, isn't desire a, if not the, cause of suffering? :chin: — Agent Smith
That's cultural. I don't think that's universal at all. The difference between Italian and British mourners (as statistical tendencies with individual exceptions of course). Or white Protestant middle class culture, high church, vs. afroamerican culture when mourning celebrating, expressing anger or sexuality.Remember the "desire" to shut down the limbic system is proportional to the intensity of suffering one experiences. — Agent Smith
On a verbal level, yes. A kind of trained indifference. But on a practice level, you are cutting off the connection between the emotions and expression. I posit there is self-hatred (at a universal and doctrinal level, not at a personal one. That said, any individual doing it, is making it personal.) Then I would suggest trying expressing emotions with passion in any Buddhist community, East or West, and see if they have more judgments and hatred of emotions than what you'll experience in other contexts.Self hatred or self restraint? Hatred is an emotion/mood which is biased and has an opposite. Apathy, stillness or the eternal middle ground would be more apt to Buddhism - neither good nor bad, it is what it is. — Benj96
Yes, at the verbal level, it's general neutral. Actions speak louder than words, however. And the actions have implicit distaste for emotions. If you had one kid in school who was not allowed to talk or express themselves in a variety of ways, we'd catch the lie in the teacher saying he or she did not judge that child.As far as I know Buddhism tells one to always be conscious of where an emotion towards /or attachement to something comes from and recognise that it's transient and will pass. Both the good and bad ones. — Benj96
Sure.And that if you dare to feel emotions to their fullest - in pursuit of love for example, you must be prepared for the mutual opposite that that will inevitably generate when love is lost. — Benj96
It goes way beyond not clinging to them. Expressing them is problematic. And you must actively, in a disciplined repetition disidentify with them and cut off their flow through the body.You can't feel happiness without feeling sadness. You can't chase thrill without being chased by boredom. So they say allow both to pass through you without dictating your behaviours/ desires ans motivations. Feel them, but try not to cling onto them. — Benj96
It's a bit like how Big Pharma has been pathologizing grief and other emotions.
The time limit on healthy grief has been going down and people are encouraged to take pills earlier in the process of grief. — Bylaw
Ah, the other dog just put his leg up on my back and thinks he going to sniff my balls first.I think you're denying a truth that stares you in the face every single day. It doesn't matter though, it's a phase in understanding. — Agent Smith
Here's what I see happened. Instead of responding to the points I made, you went ad hom. The insult was open. You're in a phase. (one that I, Agent Smith am not in or no longer am in) The ad hom is implicit, since instead of responding to the points I made you decided to place me as a person in a category. I must be wrong, due to some personal lack on my part.Should the dog who's sniffing your testicles bite one/both off? — Agent Smith
Pardon my simplistic (Theravādin?) interpretation – I think Buddha teaches that attachment to impermanent 'relationships and things' as if they were not impermanent – e.g. trying to hold on to smoke (i.e. māyā) – causes dukkha (i.e. frustration, distress, anxiety). Yeah, 'attachment is desire', but it's how one attaches, or desires, that causes dukkha, and not just "desire" itself; thus, the Buddha teaches the Noble Eightfold Path as exercises, more or less, for sustaining habits of aligning expectarions with reality – to align letting-be with impermanence – such that ego-desire (craving) transforms into nonego-desire (renouncing) and then trannsforms further into eco-desire (à la wu-wei), or as you've pointed out, Smith: understanding samsara. :fire:Desire is a cause of suffering. — Agent Smith
Pardon my simplistic (Theravādin's?) interpretation – I think Buddha teaches that attachment to impermanent 'relationships and things' as if they were not impermanent – e.g. trying to hold on to smoke (i.e. maya) – causes dukkha (i.e. frustration, distress, anxiety). Yeah, 'attachment is desire', but it's how one attaches, or desires, that causes dukkha, and not just "desire" itself; thus, the Buddha teaches the Noble Eightfold Path as exercises, more or less, for sustaining habits of aligning expectarions with reality – to align letting-be with impermanence – such that ego-desire (craving) transforms into nonego-desire (renouncing) and then trannsforms further into eco-desire (à la wu-wei), or as you've pointed out, Smith: understanding samsara. :fire: — 180 Proof
O empty glass – another round, barkeep. :pray: :sweat: :party:I know this Buddhist monk who likes the occasional drink and he always makes it a point to say (paraphrasing) "drink, enjoy, but do realize, it is empty (sunyata)" :lol: — Agent Smith
Get involved in philosophical discussions about knowledge, truth, language, consciousness, science, politics, religion, logic and mathematics, art, history, and lots more. No ads, no clutter, and very little agreement — just fascinating conversations.