What are the real parents doing, and how old are you?

My and her mom lives up the road, but my sister won't speak to her and hasn't in like a year. Her dad lives in New Brunswick, and has like fifteen kids, doubt that he cares. I don't think she even remembers him.

My Dad is here helping me, but she isn't his responsibility.

I'm actually 33 in seven days, lol.

In case I forget it, happy birthday.

My, you have an unappetizing problem on your hands. Brothers and sisters trying to establish the role of parent over their younger siblings is the stuff of unpleasant Grimm faerie tales. "And then the wicked child summoned a witch who turned her older brother into a chicken which the wretched brat promptly beheaded with an axe."

If at 15, your sister doesn't recognize you as some sort of parent, it probably isn't going to happen.

You being the potwalloper (owner of a hearth on which to boil pots -- a householder) do not have to put up with more crap from you teen-age sister than you want to put up with. However, it won't be at all easy or simple to change your sister's behavior.

You are entitled to lay down certain rules. I would recommend rules which your sister is capable of actually following. Like, "You have to speak respectfully to me." "You have to tell me the truth about important things."

What's your leverage? Not too much. At 15 she could, if she wanted to, walk out the door and not come back. That would make you feel much worse, and would be bad for her. So... there will be major limits on how much of an affect you can have on her.

If her behavior is dangerous to herself, (I can't tell from what you say) you might have to call on expert assistance. I don't know what they call it in Canada, but in the US it's called "child protection". Or maybe a mental health facility could be helpful. She is still a child legally. However, at 15 it is getting late for any agency to step in and fix things up.

Children her age are notorious for being difficult to put up with. Adolescent brains aren't adult brains. Imagine having 3 or 4 teenagers to put up with! Be patient. Trust, but verify. Be kind, but not a doormat.

The only genuinely wise thing I've ever heard anyone say about parenting comes from a humorist from years ago named Erma Bombeck:

Kids need your love most when they deserve it least.

It's come in pretty handy for me. Oh, and keep your sense of humor no matter what. The shit you can get into with kids is ridiculous. You need to be able to take a breath and laugh at it.

She spent time in the hospital and was cutting herself, and is like super ultra neurotic, and is constantly under attack, so I really really really wish she would be direct and aggressive with me.
talk disrespectful to me. Say what you think, I promise that I can take it.

She's a great artist, and all of the social workers are no longer circling, because her happiness and health has definitely improved, as my mom is super duper repressive, and she is afraid to be out after dark.

She is a totally sweat amazing human being, that everyone likes. She just needs to realize it... but I'm like the opposite of mom, so she is pretty much way too scared to do much of anything. I actually told her when she first got here that you can't tell everyone the some things. Sometimes you gotta tell some kids to be good, and others to be bad. As in, I wanted her to feel safe to do whatever...

I didn't mean, like, behind my back and stuff though... now that I've said that, and actually outlined the recent events in my head... I may have just been too sensitive, and maybe deserve it... I need to smarten up more? Is that right maybe?

Thank you. I just need to grow up.

I think there are people around here with some training, who might have some good advice for you, given your sister's history. I'm just a dad.

I'll just add this, as a sort of commentary on the quote I gave you. I think one of the things people do, not just kids but maybe especially them, is test you. If past relationships--maybe with the parents--have failed somehow, they want to know if you're going to stick, if your love is unconditional. (I don't know if everyone should get to have your unconditional love, but maybe little sister does.) So they test. Can I be bad enough that you'll stop loving me (too)? That doesn't mean you have to just accept everything. Setting boundaries and so on, that's also a way of showing you love her, that you give a damn what she's doing. It does mean that when she crosses a line, the most important message she can get from you is, "Nope. That didn't do it. I still love you," and you can make that "I still love you, you little asshole" if you want.

That's it for me. Hope I have spoken out of turn here.

She's a great artist — Wosret

The fact that she is an artist and good at it – you can use to your advantage. Praise her work sincerely and often. Offer her incentives to produce more – trips to the ocean, theatre, restaurants, clothes, sleep overs with friends, money, art supplies. Find out what she wants. Make her a trusted friend. Ask for her advice on things. Find out what she thinks.

Happy Birthday ;) (Y)

Wosret, I have only known one cutter who also is a female and has artistic traits and I always keep her in mind when I read about others who deal with the cutting demon. One of the greatest coping tools I have seen is body Marker Tattooing instead. I can see it being exceptionally effective as 'coloring' has been shown to reduce your stress, focus on 'nothingness' and the instant gratification that if she wants to share, will draw positive attention not negatively affecting her body.

While I realize it is not a solution to cutting, I think it is a healthier coping tool.

Yeah, thanks guys.

Yeah, thanks guys — Wosret

You sound a bit overwhelmed for our usual Wos~ One other tip I learned that might help in defusing a situation is to bring your voice almost down to a whisper when the other person begins to raise their voice or yell. It causes two things: first it brings down the temperature of the discussion AND they have to stop yelling to hear what you are saying, so for a moment they are forcing themselves to calm down a bit.
Try it and don't give up. But as a female who has been 15 before, we do believe we know it all and you older folks don't get it. Some of us get over it and others use it for a lifetime.

We don't really yell at each other. I was telling buddy at work the other day, when talking about parenting not to yell at his kid. Emoting seriousness is sufficient.

I've actually had this thread on my mind awhile. Your sister has had a really tough time of things, and she'd be in such a different place if she had had stable parents and a stable life. I can't tell you how to parent her specifically, but I can tell you generally.

Tell her that you love her, that you are there for her no matter what, that as long as you have a roof over your head, she will too, as long as you have food, she will too. Tell her that she can mock you, criticize you, do whatever, and nothing will change between you, but you'd rather she not because it hurts you. Tell her you're so sorry that the adults in her life have let her down, that it's not her fault, and that you will make sure she gets the best you can give her.

Yeah, tall order. You won't be judged if you don't accept this task because you're not really her dad, but if you were, that's what you might say. That's what I'd like to think I'd say.

Just to say how I ended up with her. My mom put her in the hospital, calling her crazy or whatever, and she refused to go home. Because she had no means of communicating with the outside world, I got her a laptop and sell phone. She began communicating with my sister in NB, and she was going to move into a bigger place (is the story I got told, but I doubt it), then my Dad was going to go visit her, and then go visit his mom and my other siblings in Halifax. When he got there though, my sister said that she was out on the street now, because she had to move out, and her new place fell through, and she had no where to go. So, instead of Dad getting to do that, he got instead to waste his trip, and then have to come back immediately with her. She then stayed here and I enjoyed their company a great deal, but then she moved out and didn't/wouldn't take my little sister. I don't know if the original plan ever involved taking her. I tend to imagine schemes. My mom taught them all how to be horrible schemers.

At this point my little sister was in temporary foster care, and my sister and mom wanted to scheme, telling her that she was coming here, but then just forcing her to come home when she got here. I of course refused, but they did it anyway when I was at work, my little sister called the police and everything, but they made her go home. I then told her that, no I didn't not want her here, I just didn't want schemes, and I agreed to just let her stay here because fuck their schemes.

So, no, I haven't promised anything remotely that unconditional, and I didn't really willingly step up to the plate, and she is worried that I may throw her out on a whim. I've considered it too, when things get the least big difficult, and I can't control them.

An extremely tall order. I don't know that I can do that, and mean it.

I understand. The question was how to parent, not whether to parent. As to the former, I stand by what I said. As to the latter, I agree with your assessment. It's not your cross to bear. You're being taken advantage of, which is the role of parents and of fools. Since you are neither, her days with you are limited, determined only by your tolerance level and by your resolve to see things through, but there will inevitably be a day when enough is enough. Just don't let them take you down with them. Despite the freefall everyone around you is in, your future looks bright.

As noted in The Shoutbox, the key to surviving a terrorist is by running, even past those who seek your help.

Thank you for bringing clarity btw to an unrelated issue in my life.

Have you talked with her about you taking a parental role? Would she want that? The tricky thing is, however in need she might be of some parents, you aren't one. But you might be able to be something else, legally, like a guardian or support worker or something. I don't know what the social care setup is where you live, but maybe you could even get paid for taking some responsibility. When does she become responsible for herself? When she's 18? Who are the legal guardians at the moment? Are you able to talk to her social worker? Is she a ward of the state? Is the arrangement of living with you an informal one? Whatever the case it sounds to me like you might be her best option if you can hack it.

She lies a lot to everyone, and although she isn't actually very good at it, she is good at looking pitiful, and older, more numb people are ridiculously easy to slip lies by, she just makes herself look pitiful. So when I first got her there were like five social workers/therapists circling, and calling me every other day, wanting to do custody mediation or what now. I basically just ignored them until they wen't away. Her physical and mental health began to dramatically improve here, and I let her dress, and be the ways she wanted and thing. So they just stopped bothering me. I really get my Dad to do all of the stuff like talk to schools, and take her to appointments and things. I tend to be too busy working any.

We arranged a joint custody thing. It would be difficult to get full custody from my Mom, she would want to retain any support money she is receiving from her. Though I'm sure that I could arrange to just pay the difference back to her if I wanted to.

I am doing it half-assed though, and need to make up my mind, and either accept or reject this situation completely. Just that she lies so so much to me and everyone all the time, and thinks that she's the smartest that ever lived, and I'm probably a crazy idiot, just like mom... but easy to manipulate. So, since just before this thread, when I cleaned myself up, I started calling her on that shit, and continue to.

I really need her to start being honest with me... but I fear that having never even seen such a thing before, that she may not even be able to tell the difference at the moment, and that's going to take a lot of work.

I really need her to start being honest with me... but I fear that having never even seen such a thing before, that she may not even be able to tell the difference at the moment, and that's going to take a lot of work. — Wosret

If you show her honesty both good and bad, she might be able to see her way through to not lying, maybe not now but when she is ready to give up lying. The problem with someone that uses dishonesty as their weapon of choice is how effective it has been in their lives and it sounds like outside of you, dishonesty has served her well in getting out of where she didn't want to be. I hope she sees her way out but be careful yourself. I was once told that you cannot save a drowning man if you yourself are treading water. So never forget about self preservation as you offer yourself and your time, to your sister.
Wosret, you are proving to be more of a gentleman than I could ever have imagined. Stepping up to be a help to your sister, to the degree you have is inspiring. (L)

Lying attacks the intuition, tells you "don't believe your senses, believe me instead", and is a physical and emotional assault. No different than just physically beating people into submission. It causes analogous mental, emotional, and physical damage to real assault. That is no exaggeration. It's the exact same fucking thing.

People do it so often because they don't understand the consequences.

She can't invest her emotions in you. She reflexively closes off to protect herself. On top of that there's a hormonal issue with being 15. She's not responsible for her actions.

It's not about blame, it's about her health. I don't need her to trust me, or feel safe... those shouldn't in any way be a prerequisite.

Hmm...could be.

It could also be she's quite the narcissist (vulnerable type), hormones can and probably do play a big role in erratic behaviour but such types generally do not like to get called on their behaviour, which you seems to be doing. With what is mentioned about her / your mother, father and childhood I wouldn't rule it out in advance.

Using "scheming" as a means of going through life can be very practical and it's a perfectly fine strategy if you look at it from an evolutionary perspective. If it's a form of narcissism (which is usually hallmarked by a lack of healthy self image), why would you put up with someone who doesn't play along with the scheming and confronts her with her own lack?

I'll hope you're just dealing with a slightly damaged teenager but there's the possibility you're just hitting your head over and over against a concrete wall with her, which won't do you, or her, much good.

If you consider the option that what she might suffer from is very hard to treat, at least you have an idea what you're in for. If it's really for her health, how about just putting her up / putting up with her? Also, when you were dealing with (or ignoring) the social workers and let her do her thing, did you gave her a lot of attention at that time and how was she treating you at that point?

She's poorly adjusted due to a fucked up childhood, and she seems to thrive under the relative stabilty of Wosret's home, while still retaining some anti-social behavior picked up along the way. The path to her success is paved with unconditional love and support, although Wosret is perfectly correct in not accepting that duty if he doesn't want to.

The path to her success is paved with unconditional love and support, although Wosret is perfectly correct in not accepting that duty if he doesn't want to. — Hanover

From the shoutbox it looks like Wosret is seriously considering accepting the duty, at least giving her the best shot he can~
Now how to not be a sibling but moving into a guidance role...that is going to be the first hurdle. Truthfully, can't say I know how to do that other than bearing my own Indians to shape.