Life is a competition. There are winners, and there are losers. That's a scary & depressing reality.

niki wonoto

When you were born into this world, nobody told you that in this world/life, there are winners & losers. Most people of course will obviously dream or wish/hope to be a winner (eg: successful, rich, famous, have a happy life, have a lot of friends, married happily with kids, etc etc etc). But in reality, we all know that's not how the world works. In reality, not everyone can be a winner. People can lose, fail, sometimes even miserably (or tragically).

Some people are lucky, some people are not. Some people are happy, while some other people are not. That's life. It's naive to think/assume that everybody in this world will be happy or successful. Wake up & look at reality. How many people in this world are suffering in pain? (eg: poverty, hungers, wars, disease/illness, failures, etc etc). This is not paradise, heaven, nor utopia. The world is not all sunshine & rainbows, even if most people would always want to be positive/optimistic.

And that realization is scary & depressing, at least for me personally. What's even scarier is even just one single little mistake can eventually be fatal enough to turn your life upside down, sometimes with no way back up again. I'm sure you all know what I'm talking about. There are a lot of examples & stories like this in life. I'm actually one of the examples (or proof). Of course when I was young, I never thought nor imagined my life could turn out or become like this now. So sad, pathetic, and a failure (at 40 years old now). Nobody told me nor warned me that life can be like this. Nobody told me about the harsh, cold reality (yes maybe I was privileged & spoiled enough to not see the reality). People always hope, or think that I will be successful, that I will 'make it big', etc etc. But unfortunately/sadly, that's not the reality.

What do you think? Can you relate to what I think/feel?

(Sorry if my English is not good, because English is not my first language. I'm from Indonesia)

Agent Smith

Well, you presented a balanced view of life - as many fail as succeed. What do expect us to say? Life sucks!? Life's a ball? Both, neither, depends, who cares, balderdash!?

Everything has a price tag, not necessarily monetary. One has to pay up at some point, if not now, later, for certain. Some of course don't realize it and I don't mind that, nobody in his right mind would - be happy, enjoy life, have a ball. Others seem to possess the Devil's luck - a smooth ride, no bumps, no flat tyres, a full tank a gas, no engine problems, etc. Then there are folks whose whole life's a train wreck, from start to finish a series of disasters. My heart goes out to them - life wasted, love wasted, potential wasted, just another thing the cat picked up, but always do remember Allah Rahim or El Rachum, God is merciful. :heart:

frank

↪niki wonoto

When life hands you lemons, make lemonade.

punos

What do you think? Can you relate to what I think/feel? — niki wonoto

Since you asked and you seem troubled:
I think your mind is probably working against you, and you probably need to refactor and refocus. What do you really want from yourself, not the world that comes later? Do you want to be afraid and depressed because the world is not up to your standards? Do you really think that's a good enough reason to sabotage your inner life? Will it really help you or the world in any way? Don't count yourself as a victim NEVER EVER. You have the capacity to adapt; use it. What you think; you feel, and what you feel makes you think it again. Learn to break your cycles.. observe yourself, identify, refactor, and refocus. Your circle of concern should be of the same radius as your circle of influence, no more no less.

unenlightened

↪niki wonoto

That life is a competition is a nonsense promoted by folks who have been lucky, because it makes it seem that they deserve their luck. It is good fortune to be born in a peaceful prosperous family with good health. It is goodfortune to be talented and to have the opportunity to develop one's talent. Dismiss this nonsense of competition; most of us never stood a chance because the playing field is full of deep holes and most of us cannot get out of the hole we were born in.

On the contrary, life for humans is a cooperative game, a game of loving and caring for each other, and this is a much better game because we all can win. Even the most helpless and feeble has a role and can add to the happiness of the world. Even if you are alone in a hole you cannot get out of, you can decorate your hole and make it the best hole you can.

And your English is good by the way, welcome to the site.

Baden

↪niki wonoto

Welcome!

"Life is a competition" is a story that comes from the command "Compete!" But insofar as we are human, to give in to that command is a choice and however we then feel is a result of our own choice. We can deny but not escape our responsibility here. Social ideologies (stories) have only and all the power we give them, and we don't have to give them everything. "Compete" is not the only possible command as un pointed out. There is "Cooperate", "Flourish", "Create" etc.

If the story of our life is based on the idea that we have no control over its direction (there is one and only one ultimate command beyond out capacity to choose) then we have already failed regardless. We have failed to recognise we are human and have choices, not only over how we do things but over what we value. We should not punish ourselves for failing to get to the end of a social cul de sac. Better to create stories for ourselves that give us power and reject those that take it away.

schopenhauer1

Better to create stories for ourselves that give us power and reject those that take it away. — Baden

The minute you are summoned by the people with power and money, that fantasy goes away. Agency is had by those that have the knowledge and power is had by those who can make money from that knowledge whilst using those who don’t have the knowledge or money to get stuff done so they can sell the products of that knowledge to those who passively and ignorantly use them.

Of course OP feels a sense of alienation and disconnect.

Baden

↪schopenhauer1

Yes, consumer society is exploitative and alienating. I agree. If that is enough for you to build a prison for yourself, feel free.

schopenhauer1

Yes, consumer society is exploitative and alienating. I agree. If that is enough for you to build a prison for yourself, feel free. — Baden

It’s not just consumer society, but any consumption of advanced technology and workers working for owners/boards with high powered tech and science, is participating in this. It’s unavoidable even in a society of relative non consumerism.

It’s not of one’s own making. One cannot change the throwness of history and society. One can only become more comfortable accepting but never changing the immovable throwness and that seems to be what the OP is getting at. No agency but all acceptance. They can imprison you but they can’t break you is not great consolation.

Baden

↪schopenhauer1

If you think that's the best you can come up with, feel free.

schopenhauer1

↪Baden

Can that not be said to anyone?

punos

Better to create stories for ourselves that give us power and reject those that take it away. — Baden

I remember learning this lesson a long time ago; it's one of the best lessons i've ever learned because it's so versatile. This is probably the best advice in this thread

↪niki wonoto

, and it's at least worth contemplating upon until it makes absolute sense if it doesn't already.

Shawn

It's good that you realize these things, as they do happen to cause s lot of turmoil for those who never had the abilities to be Wolfgang Mozart's or Beethoven's. Having said that, I don't think that any circumstance warrants abandoning hope or as you call it 'optimism and positivity'. One can always look forward to seeing the sun come up for another day.

Keep on trying, and your English is great!

Tzeentch

In reality, not everyone can be a winner. — niki wonoto

To "win" is to cultivate virtue and self-mastery, though one doesn't triumph over anybody else except perhaps one's lesser self, thus this type of winning does not imply the existence of a loser.

Anyone can do this, and one may very well argue that virtue and self-mastery are cultivated more frequently by those who have less than those who have more.

Baden

↪punos

:smile:

Anyone can do this, and one may very well argue that virtue and self-mastery are cultivated more frequently by those who have less than those who have more. — Tzeentch

:up:

schopenhauer1

↪Baden

What do you think? Can you relate to what I think/feel? — niki wonoto

What would be the ideal society and situation for you?

Can you redefine the prison or do you just accept the conditions as it is what it is?

Agent Smith

@schopenhauer1, right on cue. The OP did mention the other half - those havin' a good time - even if only in passing. They should be given a say since antinatalism is a statement about everybody. We don't wanna be partypooper now do we. The message of antinatalism and pessimism is not meant for all ears - it's meant for a particular demographic that, to my reckoning, is in a tight spot as we speak. Take the message to them, but oh, I forgot, they don't have an internet connection. You're preachin' to the wrong crowd mon ami. Expect to be thrown out, as unceremoniously as possible, of the party. Pick yourself up, it's raining, you lost your wallet, you're hungry ... the party won't be cancelled for anything.

Baden

Can you redefine the prison or do you just accept the conditions as it is what it is? — schopenhauer1

Can you redefine your loaded question or do we just accept your condition is what we are?

Baden

Speaking of a segue to:

https://thephilosophyforum.com/discussion/13957/intent-and-selective-word-use

Athena

↪niki wonoto

Your English is very good. At least I don't think I could have done better and English is my native language.

I desperately wish I knew how to awaken children to their own talents and interest and help them find a path to their self actualization. But in my old age I regret the young do not want to know what I think and they are making very bad decisions, such as smoking pot and refusing to go to school. As they know very little of life, they are sure they know all they really need to know. I think everyone creates their own drama about what life is and who they are and from there they are busy proving themselves right.

Athena

To "win" is to cultivate virtue and self-mastery, though one doesn't triumph over anybody else except perhaps one's lesser self, thus this type of winning does not imply the existence of a loser.

Anyone can do this, and one may very well argue that virtue and self-mastery are cultivated more frequently by those who have less than those who have more. — Tzeentch

I think you may be right about adversity being a good motivator. I am concerned that Christianity has hindered us in the need to learn of virtues and intentionally act on them until doing so becomes a habit, because Christianity is about being saved by the Savior, instead of being saved by our will to develop virtual habits.

Hanover

↪niki wonoto

Life is competitive to the extent you have to compete for the things you need, some having to compete harder, some having had things provided more easily.

But it's not like it's a hard dichotomy, where either you get to be a success or you fail, as if you either get accepted into Harvard or you work a menial labor job. There are a thousand points between, and sometimes success is obtaining your GED or getting the small promotion at work. Competition need not be a contest of keeping up with the Joneses, but an internal competition of trying to acheive whatever it is you aim for. You do have a choice in those matters, and you can do what you can to try to fulfill that goal and to interpret your succes.

I also don't agree that for every winner there is a loser, and we should just accept that some of us will lose so others can win. There aren't a limited number of winning tickets that you just have to hope you will land, but it's possible that all can win but there is a significant component up to you.

schopenhauer1

↪Baden

Luckily my loaded question has no efficacy as to affecting someone’s life as compared to the reality of our social existence, oui?

javi2541997

But in my old age I regret the young do not want to know what I think and they are making very bad decisions, such as smoking pot and refusing to go to school. As they know very little of life, — Athena

Yet, that's the main problem of my generation. Most of them do not seem to be motivated in learning something and they waste a lot of valuable time in wacky acts. The line of understanding what is worthy or not has become more and more blur. Paradoxically, our generation which has more opportunities for learning than the previous, are at the same time the most vague or ignorant.

Hanover

I think you may be right about adversity being a good motivator. I am concerned that Christianity has hindered us in the need to learn of virtues and intentionally act on them until doing so becomes a habit, because Christianity is about being saved by the Savior, instead of being saved by our will to develop virtual habits. — Athena

I do wonder about this sometimes. I have been struck by the number of Christians on this board who have expressed similar sentiments, and it was foreign to me as a non-Christian to hear. That is, the virtue of humility rooted in the idea of being born into failure and requiring self-abandoment to a savior to pull you from damnation I would think could engender a feeling a meekness and helplessness.

Counter this with a view of being born into perfection and holiness with a charge to seek justice and I think you end up with a very different psychology.

My background is the latter, and the things people say in the religion threads regarding religious fear and whatever else isn't something I was used to hearing.

schopenhauer1

↪niki wonoto

@Baden
The problem too is you probably had something specific happen and rightly, you don’t go into detail, thus any advice is also going to be largely vague and just general positive redirections. You can do it, it’s not as bad as you think, and don’t let ‘em get ya down type of thing.

But @Hanover had some point that life is not necessarily a zero sum game of winners and losers in terms of the possibility of making a living. However, it is setup a certain way that is basically intractable. You were born, in this world you have to survive, and history has its contingent ever present constraint along with the cultural artifacts of what came from it.

Baden

↪schopenhauer1

It's not luck that your loaded question satisfies you. It satisfies you because it satisfies your story. No more. And what validates or invalidates our stories is our experience of the behaviours that manifest them. If your story satisfies you in terms of how you live your life to its demands then that is your justification for maintaining it. The pretence to objectivity fails. Your pills are for those who like prisons. And that's fine for those who do.

schopenhauer1

The pretence to objectivity fails. Your pills are for those who like prisons. And that's fine for those who do. — Baden

I actually agree here about objectivity to an extent. I understand the mindset of self-help is to look within for coping better with the external restraints. Why is my redirecting the lens as to focus on the external restraints not allowed? That itself is suspicious and not uncommon for people to be hostile towards. And I don’t think “because we can’t help what we can’t help” answers this.

Baden

Why is my redirecting the lens as to focus on the external restraints not allowed — schopenhauer1

Au contraire, I've told you twice:

feel free — Baden

I am not one to stand between someone and their pleasure. I'm merely holding the flashlight.

Hanover

But Hanover had some point that life is not necessarily a zero sum game of winners and losers in terms of the possibility of making a living. However, it is setup a certain way that is basically intractable. You were born, in this world you have to survive, and history has its contingent ever present constraint along with the cultural artifacts of what came from it. — schopenhauer1

Sure, and you were forced to say that by these constraints and me to say otherwise, which is the meaninglessness of determinism and which is even more meaningless to suggest we've figured it out, considering whatever we figured out was what we had to think regardless.

Or, we have free will and despite these contraints can make our lives better or worse based upon how we decide.

frank

Sure, and you were forced to say that by these constraints and me to say otherwise, which is the meaninglessness of determinism and which is even more meaningless to suggest we've figured it out, considering whatever we figured out was what we had to think regardless. — Hanover

How does determinism make it meaningless to learn? It just means that you were always going to learn x at time y.

Life is a competition. There are winners, and there are losers. That's a scary & depressing reality.

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