Yes. I know what you are doing because it has been going on for generations. It is a racist justification, akin to the racist justification for mortgage zoning.

Prejudice produces injustice.This has been known for long enough that the depiction of justice personified has a blindfold. But Agent Smith and the police do not care about justice so much as they care about their own interest. — unenlightened

You must not misconstrue my words though this is likely given this issue is close to many people's hearts.

You must not misconstrue my words — Agent Smith

Your words are very clear and you claim is very common.

There's seems to be a lot of anger and resentment among certain demographics, and politics and media (aka Tweedledee and Tweedledum) seem very interested in feeding (and feeding off of?) this.

Nothing sells like outrage, and people love the feeling of indignation, especially when it makes them feel absolved of all blame. We've seen this during covid, the Ukraine war, climate, and race politics are no exception to that.

Si, si señor, the feelings, they swell up and you know what happens next. Somebody has to sit down, pore through the data, analyze it, and present to us their findings. Racism is a serious charge (it has the potential to destabilize the entire nation) and so, we must be certain if it exists in the police force (our guardians). We can't simply look at individual incidents where innocent black lives were lost. We have to also prove that they're statistically disproportionate/inexplicable to/by other relevant data (race-based crime rates for example). I'm especially concerned by blame-deflection (from historical racism/slavery to an especially vulnerable group given the nature of their job, the men in blue). Perhaps we can treat police violence as some kinda surrogate marker for historical racism - the black and crime correlation would've never materialized if blacks had been treated fairly from the start.

One crucial point that hasta be made pronto (@180 Proof) is that race maybe the wrong parameter to focus on i.e. (this is extremely likely) it may actually be poverty that drives people to crime and not some kinda racial defect. Since there are more poor blacks than poor any-other-race [blame falls squarely on the shoulders of historical racism (slavery)], blacks will dominate the crime statistics, creating the illusion (maya's a bitch) that blacks are (more likely to be) criminals. Some other socioeconomic factor, not necessarily poverty, may be at play.

Police officers have always been the dogs of prey for the state and government. — javi2541997

They have a reputation for being unnecessarily belligerent. They know they can get away with it if the victim is black. If you have dark skin, you'll immediately wonder if you're going to survive an encounter with police. Young men don't realize that running is the worst thing you can do. You have to feed their egos and say "yes sir, no sir" because it's a matter of life and death.

You're right that covering this issue over completely with the word "racism" is obscuring part of the problem.

Exactly.

Policemen believe that they are over you. Whenever they enter in the corps and wear an uniform they tend to be abusive. It is true that this work (being a police officer) is dangerous. Nonetheless, is a big paradox that we need to be defended from them instead of being protected by. I always considered police institutions just the heavy, abusive, violent arm of the politician. They are their personal soldiers.

Since there are more poor blacks than poor any-other-race [blame falls squarely on the shoulders of historical racism (slavery)], blacks will dominate the crime statistics, creating the illusion (maya's a bitch) that blacks are (more likely to be) criminals. Some other socioeconomic factor, not necessarily poverty, may be at play. — Agent Smith

Ok... and how that's related to the abusive behaviour of police officers? I think you are mixing up the problems.

Somebody has to sit down, pore through the data, analyze it, and present to us their findings. Racism is a serious charge... — Agent Smith

And so, the accusation is quickly made, yet takes ages to refute.

Since there are more poor blacks than poor any-other-race [blame falls squarely on the shoulders of historical racism (slavery)], ... — Agent Smith

I think that is too simplistic.

The accumulation of intergenerational intellectual and physical wealth is a process that may take centuries, and that is under the best of circumstances.

For reasons that I cannot fully explain, most of the African continent has lagged behind in this regard when compared to places like Europe and the Far-East (China, Japan, etc.).

There was already very little intergenerational wealth build-up on most of the African continent, and slavery further damaged what little there was, basically starting the process anew in the Americas for those who were shipped there under slavery. That is only some 150 years ago. For reference, the colonists and their descendants easily had close to two millenia of heritage.

Good points. :up:

Ok... and how that's related to the abusive behaviour of police officers? I think you are mixing up the problems. — javi2541997

Without some numbers to go with that claim, I'm not buyin' it.

Peace to the family and friends of Tyre Nichols.

This is shocking. The violence and thuggery from public officials. More shocking that this keeps happening. Over and over and over...

Jail for the assailants, of course. But also accountability higher up too. The five officers did the crime. But those in charge of them created conditions for this to happen.

A gang of young inexperienced fully armed police patrolling at night driving unmarked vehicles in a unit called “SCORPION”? WTF were the supervisors thinking? Criminal negligence at best. Murder accessory is more accurate. This crime goes higher than the officers.

A gang of young inexperienced fully armed police patrolling at night driving unmarked vehicles in a unit called “SCORPION”? WTF were the supervisors thinking? Criminal negligence at best. Murder accessory is more accurate. This crime goes higher than the officers. — 0 thru 9

:up:

It is criminal organization, indeed. Those police officers are just a small part of a filthy and corrupt institution which thinks can act without any control.

But hey, according to @Agent Smith, the problem is on African American's shoulders not the brutality and violence of the cops :roll:

True.

Yes. Tragic and nauseating, but true.

Do people whose skin is brown or black need to have a helmet in their car to wear in the event of being stopped by the police? Just to hopefully prevent brain damage from clubs? How do you protect yourself from such attacks? If you lock your doors, that’s probably an invitation for the police to start shooting. Unbelievable.

I hope this is the last time this happens. I fear that is only wishful thinking. Maybe the next time police brutality happens, if the victim is white, female, or famous... maybe that will truly get everyone in an overdue righteous uproar.

Bad cops, bad cops... whatcha gonna do
Whatcha gonna do, when they come for... YOU?!
(to paraphrase the theme song from a show that made arrests of black people into entertainment. Not surprisingly, it was initially on the Fox network. New episodes are still being aired.)

Prejudice produces injustice.This has been known for long enough that the depiction of justice personified has a blindfold. But Agent Smith and the police do not care about justice so much as they care about their own interest. — unenlightened

:up: ...+falsely generalised to a social interest.

Crime prevention that's conceptualised in purely instrumental terms--low crime is good (+ points), high crime is bad ( - points)--with social incubators of crime being either wilfully or resignedly ignored, clearly leads to socially destructive practices (e.g. profiling / harassment / over-policing) being justified and encouraged. The methods superficially work (Look! Number down!) but seeing as the underlying social disease is not only left unchecked but exacerbated (community alienation increases), the only way they can continue to be seen to work is through an ever-widening schism between the image of enforcement (protection, service, justice etc) and its practice (bullying, contempt, injustice etc.) which collapses in these events where the practice becomes so extreme it returns to and threatens to become the image, and only then is endangered by the refusal of the image to identify with it. But the solution always seems to protect the image by focusing on methods of disidentification that allow the cycle to repeat, rather than realizing there's nothing in the mirror. The image has no substance because justice is not unidimensional or ungrounded. There is no justice without social justice. There is no social justice without structural change. And there is no structural change without ideological change. >>Prejudice produces injustice.

But hey, according to Agent Smith, the problem is on African American's shoulders not the brutality and violence of the cops :roll:
1h — javi2541997

That is the truth but not the whole truth - I made it a point to mention the legacy of slavery (impoverishment over generations, combined with residual racism).

So you, as a cop, are fully justified to exercise extra caution when you see a Christian when compared to a Muslim.

It appears to me that one ought to be equally cautious because the religious denomination has yet to prove itself to be any sort of mitigating factor in the criminality. It’s too arbitrary of a distinction.

The image has no substance because justice is not unidimensional or ungrounded. There is no justice without social justice. There is no social justice without structural change. And there is no structural change without ideological change. >>Prejudice produces injustice. — Baden

Yes yes and yes. :100:

Which makes one dizzy contemplating the work to be done... assuming that a large enough percentage of people agree in general, which doesn’t even seem to be the case... YET.

Must keep chipping away. It’s all too much. I need some CBD. And need to watch The Lord of the Rings again to convince myself that tiny Hobbits can overcome an army of demons.

That is the truth but not the whole truth - I made it a point to mention the legacy of slavery (impoverishment over generations, combined with residual racism). — Agent Smith

It is a point which opaques the main issue: Police abusive behaviour. The police officers who beaten up that young boy are black too. So, as I explained before, following the views of other members and protesters, the problem is the colour blue, police departments. Five armed and equipped men against one person is filthy as hell... It is not even justified. More than a crime is a shame on an institution that is there to supposedly protect you.

@Agent Smith

Community A, Time 1: 50% of Crime is by members of X subgroup; 50% of Crime is by members of Y subgroup.
X subgroup is socially dominant, so police find it easier to concentrate on Y subgroup, over-policing and alienating them (exacerbating social conditions for crime in Y subgroup).

Community A, Time 2: 45% of crime is by members of X subgroup; 55% of Crime is by members of Y subgroup.
Police now have a justification for profiling and even more over-policing of members of Y subgroup (the stats back it up!) which they pursue with gusto (further alienating Y subgroup and exacerbating the social conditions for crime therein)

Community A, Time 3: 35% of crime is by members of X subgroup; 65% of crime is by members of Y subgroup.
The police are not allowed to come out and say it but it's pretty clear these Y subgroup guys are genetically predisposed to crime; extreme methods are probably necessary to keep them under control--which the police pursue enthusiastically (Y subgroup is now so alienated, generalised violent resistance against the police seems justified).

Time 4: Do we still have a recognizable Community A?

Don't just do the maths AS. Think about where the maths came from.

Must keep chipping away. — 0 thru 9

:pray:

It’s all too much. I need some CBD. And need to watch The Lord of the Rings again to convince myself that tiny Hobbits can overcome an army of demons. — 0 thru 9

:lol:

The cops didn't realize that a traffic camera filmed as they held him and punched, kicked, pepper sprayed, and tazed him. They all need to go to jail.

That’s the bizarre thing. All the officers had cameras mounted on them. They knew this. And still acted as they did. Were they high on steroids? Caffeine? Adrenaline? Was it some Lord of the Flies groupthink power trip fuckup? Goodness knows. Stay tuned for the trial.

That’s the bizarre thing. All the officers had cameras mounted on them. They knew this. And still acted as they did. Were they high on steroids? Caffeine? Adrenaline? Was it some Lord of the Flies groupthink fuckup? Goodness knows... — 0 thru 9

My coworkers have analyzed the cops' post beating discussion and discerned that this was a case of mistaken identity. They were looking for someone else and after they've beaten Tyree, they discover that the real suspect had been detained elsewhere, so they all start telling lies about what just happened (for the benefit of their body cams which were turned off during the beating.) They don't know that the traffic cam shows exactly what happened and it's just plain murder.

If you read my other posts, you would've seen that I attributed the problem at hand to slavery (impoverishment of blacks and residual, pernicious, racism) which is exactly what you're trying to convey

It is a point which opaques the main issue: Police abusive behaviour. The police officers who beaten up that young boy are black too. So, as I explained before, following the views of other members and protesters, the problem is the colour blue, police departments. Five armed and equipped men against one person is filthy as hell... It is not even justified. More than a crime is a shame on an institution that is there to supposedly protect you. — javi2541997

:up:

It appears to me that one ought to be equally cautious because the religious denomination has yet to prove itself to be any sort of mitigating factor in the criminality. It’s too arbitrary of a distinction. — NOS4A2

Indeed.

It's you who seems not to have read me. We may agree on that part, but this is the specific point that un took you up on and I also think is problematic. It's not so much an objection to your politics but to your reasoning.

I'm calling to my assistance statistical data to make the case that racial profiling is, though lamentable, justified. Let the numbers do the talking - any statistician will come to the same conclusion as me. — Agent Smith

If racial profiling is contributing to the numbers then letting the numbers do the talking is part of the problem. It's bad enough ignoring the cause to treat only the symptoms; it's worse to aggravate the cause and use the symptoms as a justification for further aggravation. You're sterilizing the concept of racial profiling here by simplifying the context to exclude factors relevant to its employment, i.e. its integration into the causal system of (social) disease and symptom its supposed to address.

Aah! I see.

The numbers do add up but don't they? Nevertheless, you make a good point - the benefits (probably) outweigh the harms if we bring racial profiling to an end. Also, it's, as I mentioned, probably an artefact of the real problem to wit, poverty as caused/perpetuated by historical racism.

Not everything that counts can be counted, and not everything that can be counted counts. — A. Einstein

It's bad enough ignoring the cause to treat only the symptoms; it's worse to aggravate the cause and use the symptoms as a justification for further aggravation — Baden

:shade: :up: