A more interesting question would be whether atheists generally are intent on refuting belief in any and all forms of deity or transcendence. And if so, what motivates them to concern themselves with the beliefs of others. — Janus
Theism breeds all sorts of convictions, demands, wishes, conclusions, dreams, hopes, institutions,strictures and emotions (not to mention wars and other forms of violence). Theists are invested in theism, they rely on it. God created the universe, and me, and you, and so that means a plan, a destiny, a purpose, etc. which is to be defended, or revered. Thus the favorite claim of 19th century folk suddenly encountering reasons for disbelief--"Without God, anything is permitted!" Characters in Dostoyevsky novels, without God, rush around killing old ladies and themselves. — Ciceronianus
I'm not aware of any book or article addressing atheist views on Spinoza's God, for example. — Ciceronianus
I'm not aware of any book or article addressing atheist views on Spinoza's God, for example. — Ciceronianus
I don't believe in ontological idealism or in higher consciousness either (I don't say they are untrue, I just have no good reason to accept them at this point) but these beliefs are separate to my disbelief in god/s. God of course is just a word and understood by some (Rupert Spira springs to mind) as more primitive language for oneness or higher awareness. — Tom Storm
As far as believers are concerned, God is not a social theory or internet talking point, but the most important fact about life. For them, 'life everlasting' is real, and so the lack of it is a real loss, an inestimable tragedy. — Wayfarer
I sometimes reflect on the asymmetry between atheism and theism. As far as believers are concerned, God is not a social theory or internet talking point, but the most important fact about life. For them, 'life everlasting' is real, and so the lack of it is a real loss, an inestimable tragedy. Whereas for atheism, it's only a matter of a false belief, which can't have any significance beyond the sociological or affective, because it doesn't stand for anything real in the first place. And I can't see any way to square that circle. — Wayfarer
and they rarely behave as though they actually believe it. — praxis
Well, there's certainly no evidence that Theists have everlasting life, and they rarely behave as though they actually believe it. — praxis
or them, 'life everlasting' is real, and so the lack of it is a real loss, an inestimable tragedy. Whereas for atheism, it's only a matter of a false belief, which can't have any significance beyond the sociological or affective, because it doesn't stand for anything real in the first place. And I can't see any way to square that circle. — Wayfarer
Atheism and theism do mirror one another in their guises as fundamentalisms; as counterarguments about "what is the case". They also mirror one another in their guises as ideology; purporting to know what it is right or best to believe for everyone in general. — Janus
I think they can come to mirror each other more because to a great extent atheism's chief fight is with fundamentalism, which, for all the claims of faith, is founded on argumentation - proofs of god, etc, which has shoehorned a lot of freethinking into contesting these arguments. And fair enough. — Tom Storm
Australia is largely secular and most atheists I meet here have no interest in the arguments about god in either direction and have no internet in atheism as a thought system. — Tom Storm
I don't seem to have stirred up any disagreement. — praxis
Yes, I share atheism's anti-fundamentalism, but when this becomes itself a fundamentalist crusade against all forms and shades of theism, I part company with atheists. — Janus
For them, 'life everlasting' is real, and so the lack of it is a real loss, an inestimable tragedy. — Wayfarer
I don't see how atheists can be partial to non-fundamentalist religions. Unless, of course, they practice patience, and the atheists do not try to proselyze. — god must be atheist
I don't think fundamentalists are really concerned with any rational arguments for the existence of God; I think they generally take scripture as being the literal word of God, and believe that God speaks to them through the Book. — Janus
I think that such claims ignore the fact that experience doesn't directly tell us anything propositional at all about the nature of reality, about God, immortality or freedom. — Janus
I raise my hat to Australian secularists. (What's the difference between a secularist and an atheist?) — god must be atheist
Secularists simply secule the state from the church. — god must be atheist
I've never understood Christian apologists like C.S. Lewis and Chesterton, or Cardinal Newman, because I think their arguments, such as they are, don't work. Nor is there any need (or so I think) to for them to debate with atheists. They need only believe. — Ciceronianus
Right now the presuppostionalists (via Kant's TAG) are huge in evangelical Christianity, as are the Lane Craig neophyte apologists who are all about Aquinas 5 ways arguments. Curiously many are better on reason than they are on the Bible which most appear not to have read. The internet is bursting with Christians and Muslims proving god via reason. — Tom Storm
Much debate to me seems to be emotion dressed up in rationalist clothing. — Tom Storm
My idea of fundamentalists is that they believe the bible is literally the word of God and thus is infallible. — Janus
atheism -- at least as a term -- is significant to me because it explains a difference between how I was raised, and how I am. It's the transition itself which brings meaning to the term. — Moliere
I don't pretend to know whether there are many theists who act as though they believe in everlasting life, since I have met so vanishingly few of them in relation to how many there presumably are in the world. — Janus
someone who believes in traditional forms of a religion,or believes that what is written in a holy book, — Janus
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