In the 'aesthetic' critique of atheism I often hear in these debates, there seems to be a notion that atheism robs the world of mystery and a type of beauty — Tom Storm
Unless I get a raise I guess. That seems like the sort of thing the profeist pope would say: "I did it for the money — Moliere
Those who think god's favour is dependent on our actions will have quite different attitudes towards what we ought do, to those who suppose god uninvolved.
Again, the issue is ethics rather than metaphysics. — Banno
"merely" the Creator of the universe, i.e. one that having done so, does not intervene, is not influenced by worship or prayer--is the First Mover and nothing more; — Ciceronianus
What if gaining god's favor ends up involving rituals or leaving presents for god as a sign of respect? Does that count as ethics? — Tom Storm
Merely" the Creator of the universe, i.e. one that having done so, does not intervene, is not influenced by worship or prayer--is the First Mover and nothing more; — Ciceronianus
Or does it only become an issue, if the ritual impacts upon other's lives in some way? — Tom Storm
Those who think god's favour is dependent on our actions will have quite different attitudes towards what we ought do, to those who suppose god uninvolved. — Banno
‘God holds no fears, death no worries. Good is easily attainable, evil easily endurable.’
Given a chance they will be checking that you offer a cock to Asclepius and will have a nice crop of hemlock just in case. — Banno
The Gods, which I'd say Epicurus seemed to believe existed, are Gods precisely because they are already perfectly happy and self-contained. — Moliere
The problem arises when people criticize those sorts of people, both the theist and the atheist. — Hanover
The problem arises when folk do stuff. Criticism is just words. Refusing choice to women, removing books from schools, teaching children that masturbation causes holes in their brains - these are what counts. — Banno
good people will be good and bad people will be bas but for a good person to be bad you need religion. — DingoJones
In order for this to be true, one of two things must also be true.
1) Atheists must do bad less than religious people do. I see no evidence of this.
2) Religious people must be better people than atheists are. — T Clark
I don’t see it. Atheists and theists are people, people can be good or bad. The same is true for vegans and non-vegans, farmers and not farmers, etc. people being people.
The difference is that the atheist is not referencing his religious belief system for instruction, the theist is. — DingoJones
It bears repeating: good people will be good and bad people will be bas but for a good person to be bad you need religion. — DingoJones
As in the example in bigotry towards gays above, you can reference any instance where someone who is otherwise good, commits some immoral thing based solely on their theism. Have you seriously never seen evidence of that? — DingoJones
The key difference being that an atheist wouldnt be doing it based off of atheism while the theist is basing it on their theism. — DingoJones
Are you saying that theists as a group do more bad things than atheists? — T Clark
No. Im saying theists as a group do more bad things based on their theism than atheists do bad things based on their atheism, and that theism can be the basis for a bad act by a good person.
You keep leaving out the “based of on their theism/atheism” part in service of your false equivalence. — DingoJones
Once you broaden the scope by talking about groups in that way theism and atheism become a false dichotomy, for we know that they are far from the only moral factors/basis. — DingoJones
Or some other ideology. — Janus
Unless the atheist"s lack of morality arises from his atheism — Hanover
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