It's a good sign that debate on this thread has diminished.

Hopefully it won't pick up.

Trump should he serving time already for his uncountable crimes. — Mikie

What were those crimes?

Making America Great Again.

https://www.citizensforethics.org/reports-investigations/crew-reports/president-trump-staggering-record-of-uncharged-criminal-misconduct/

President Trump’s staggering record of uncharged criminal misconduct

An uncharged crime is not a crime.

really, crickets from you, the flamboyant one?

A crime is a crime without police, prosecutor or courts being involved. When someone steals your wallet, he's a thief and committed a crime. Miraculously, that's even true when he's not prosecuted.

An uncharged crime is not a crime. — Merkwurdichliebe

A crime is a crime without police, prosecutor or courts being involved. When someone steals your wallet, he's a thief and committed a crime. Miraculously, that's even true when he's not prosecuted. — Benkei

Classic example of people misunderstanding "innocent until proven guilty". You're innocent if you didn't do it and guilty if you did, regardless of proof, charges, or conviction. The presumption of innocence simply asserts that the courts shouldn't punish anyone for a crime unless it can be proven.

First contender to Trump.

Or perhaps later the vice-presidential nominee?

A crime is a crime without police, prosecutor or courts being involved. When someone steals your wallet, he's a thief and committed a crime. Miraculously, that's even true when he's not prosecuted. — Benkei

What if there are no stated laws? Would he be guilty in the eyes of God if he believed in God, and not guilty if he is atheist?

This thread has turned out to be a nice little compendium of the presumption of guilt and its propaganda. 6 years of hoax, fake news, and nothingburgers.

Yep. The list of Trump’s crimes grows. Will he be prosecuted? Probably not.

Funny to watch the super-objective people who screamed endlessly about Hillary Clinton’s emails suddenly care about “presumption of guilt propaganda.” Lol

Just the damage done to the environment for 4 years under his administration should get the chair.

Trump pleaded the 5th more than 400 times for the New York AG deposition a couple of days ago. A prudent move given that anything he said would likely confirm his guilt.

Trump pleaded the 5th more than 400 times for the New York AG deposition a couple of days ago. A prudent move given that anything he said would likely confirm his guilt. — Fooloso4

If you’re innocent, why are you taking the Fifth Amendment?

We're not living in a world where these don't exist so what's the point thinking about it? I reject the idea the divine is the source of laws, by the way. And natural law as well.

He once said:

“You see the mob takes the Fifth. If you’re innocent, why are you taking the Fifth Amendment?”

Edit: I'm slow. I didn't pick up that you were quoting him.

Wish to hell the federal indictments would drop. This interminable 'is he or isn't he/will they or won't they?' is intolerable.

I'll add that of all the weird and irrational s***t that Trump gets up to, the trump card, pardon the pun, was his NFT collection from a couple of months back. The idea that someone who pretends to be a contender for the highest office would instigate such a scheme is just beyond ridiculous.

That picture. :rofl:

I know, right? And it’s what Trump thinks he really looks like….

Yeah what’s hilarious is that it isn’t even done for comedic effect. This is how he wants his worshippers to see him: Superman.

And they do!

Is Donald Trump a typical (American) billionaire businessman? Loose morals, domineering, money-oriented, etc.? :grin: Those are not my words, haven't met the man, so not my call. That's the impression some have of him.

Donald Trump is a shrewd person who arrived at the White House with the aim of limiting the justice processes against him. Whenever you reach such amount of power, you can control the Supreme Court as much as you wish. It is not about money but power.

:ok:

Wealth, Fame, and Power, the 3 (modern) transcendentalia. I intelligo.

This thread has turned out to be a nice little compendium of the presumption of guilt and its propaganda. 6 years of hoax, fake news, and nothingburgers. — NOS4A2

And a great example of where US politics has gone.

A populist politician doesn't and actually shouldn't be a true statesman as those who support populism don't actually want wise capable statesmen, but just an image of one.

The Dominion Lawsuit hearings have shown that Fox Media associates all knew that Trump's lie was in fact a lie, but they kept spouting it anyway, out of fear of crossing El Capo, and because of cupidity (now there's a word I don't often get to use.)

Do you think Syndey Powell is “a complete nut”? So does Laura Ingraham. Do you think Rudy Giuliani is “full of shit?” So does a Lou Dobbs producer. Think the allegations of voter fraud are “Bullshit?” So does Bret Baier! Think “The North Koreans do a more nuanced show” than Lou Dobbs? So does the president of the network. Think Trump is a “demonic force”? So does Tucker! — Matt Lewis, TheDailyBeast

https://www.thedailybeast.com/fox-news-knew-trumps-big-lie-was-bs-the-whole-time

https://www.theguardian.com/media/2023/feb/17/fox-news-hosts-dominion-lawsuit-trump-election-fraud-tucker-carlson-sean-hannity-laura-ingraham

Meanwhile one of the consequences of Trump's election lies is determination on the part of many lower-level election officials to reinforce and safeguard free and fair elections. It's becoming quite a grass-roots movement throughout the US.

When the new Arizona attorney general took office last month, she repurposed a unit once exclusively devoted to rooting out election fraud to focus on voting rights and ballot access.

In North Carolina on Tuesday, the State Board of Elections began proceedings that could end with the removal of a county election officer who had refused to certify the 2022 results even as he acknowledged the lack of evidence of irregularities.

And later this week, a group of secretaries of state will showcase a “Democracy Playbook” that includes stronger protections for election workers and penalties for those who spread misinformation — WaPo

A Silver Lining playbook, perhaps.

because of cupidity — Wayfarer

The song's wrong, it's cupidity, not money which makes the world go around...

Meanwhile one of the consequences of Trump's election lies is determination on the part of many lower-level election officials to reinforce and safeguard free and fair elections. It's becoming quite a grass-roots movement throughout the US. — Wayfarer

Hope so.

I wish one of the other consequences was the elevation of truth in politics.

I think that was discernible in the mid-terms.

Thought people might be interested in this. It's a good AP story including an interview with the foreman of the Georgia special grand jury looking into election fraud. Has some really interesting things to say about the process the grand jury went through, although nothing about the actual testimony, deliberations, decisions, or report.

https://apnews.com/article/politics-new-york-city-only-on-ap-donald-trump-georgia-266e28c4e47e54731b233e0f770f6729

The Dominion Voting Machines v Fox News has produced a wealth of incriminating evidence even before going to trial in April. NY Times reports that Murdoch admitted under oath that he should have reigned in his commentators from spreading The Big Lie, but did not (link copied as 'gift article' so should open without paywall).

Rupert Murdoch Acknowledges Fox News Hosts Endorsed Election Fraud Falsehoods

Rupert Murdoch, chairman of the conservative media empire that owns Fox News, acknowledged in a deposition that several hosts for his networks promoted the false narrative that the election in 2020 was stolen from former President Donald J. Trump, court documents released on Monday showed. ...

...Dominion has said the actions of Fox hosts including Mr. Carlson, Mr. Hannity, Ms. Bartiromo and Mr. Dobbs — and the producers and executives overseeing their programs — were anything but a dispassionate recitation of newsworthy claims of fraud. Rather, Dominion has argued, the internal communications it has uncovered point to how Fox employees behaved with “actual malice” — the legal standard required to prove defamation.