n other words, I don't mind punishing another for bad behaviour, if it only costs me a little. And if the amount of bribery is sufficient, and the bad behaviour is rather insignificant, anyone would gladly refrain from punishing. — Metaphysician Undercover
Does self-interest have to incorporate simply monetary gain? Keeping one's dignity can be in one's self-interest, perhaps. — schopenhauer1
joy of vindictiveness. — Hanover
I'm interested in why folk see someone who is giving them money for nothing as fucking them over....to fuck those who try to fuck us — Hanover
Contrary to predictions in the literature, the results show no evidence of approaching the sub-game perfect, selfish outcomes. — Hanover
I'm interested in why folk see someone who is giving them money for nothing as fucking them over.
Sure, they get more than you, but you still get something for nothing. — Banno
They're giving you money to buy their right to keep some money. They are buying a favor from you, — Hanover
The game is played exactly one time. — Banno
...but less succinctly.Evolution of fairness in the one-shot anonymous Ultimatum Game suggests that there is a heuristic response at work here, applying a stochastic games theoretical strategy; that fairness is a response to uncertainty.
What I'm interested in is that the game shows that we intuitively reject the correct games-theoretical response, which is to accept any offer. Compare that with the recent discussions here of Moore's arguments that we intuit the good. — Banno
we intuitively reject the correct games-theoretical response, which is to accept any offer. — Banno
One's wages are paid weekly. — unenlightened
...applying a stochastic games theoretical strategy — Banno
Our intuition is doing something more than just a straight forward self-interest. — Banno
Our intuition is doing something more than just a straight forward self-interest. — Banno
There's the joke. Ought we do what feels right and reject the unfair offer, or ought we follow the games-theoretical approach, and accept any offer? The Evolution of fairness article appears to offer a way to resolve this, if our intuition is actually the application of a stochastic strategy. But then in applying our intuition we are ipso facto applying a rule, and acting rationally.
So ought we apply the rule? — Banno
I'm not sure what these experiments really show other than how otherwise normal people might attempt to navigate a world where arbitrary power controls the random distribution of money. — Hanover
Also a point about the experimental setup being artificial and unrealistic. That is common to experiments, which try to isolate certain features and exclude confounders. So that in itself is not a good criticism. In this case the idea was to draw a contrast with game theory predictions, and that means creating conditions where the kind of rational self-interest that a game theory solution would take into account would not predict the result. — SophistiCat
Fundamentally, humans are driven to survival, not toward selfish promotion. If it works toward our survival that we abuse one another, we will, and the same holds true for cooperation. But we don't intuit our best survival techniques a priori. We learn through trial and error (natural selection).
So, if you toss me into a dystopia where I am to decide how much to give away to avoid your spite, I'm not fully adapted to such an environment, so I may use my adaptations gained in my normal world to my disadvantage. On the planet I evolved, we have expectations that you share a certain amount with me if you expect mutual respect from me, and consequences result if you violate that norm.
This means that how your test subjects react in this generation will vary in future generations as you continue to expose people to this new adaptation. — Hanover
This experiment tests adaptations, not inherent human nature. — Hanover
Rather, you are under-thinking it. Saying that we ought do what is right is trivial; that's just what "ought" is.You are overthinking this. We ought to do what feels right (or what you think is right - whichever word you prefer). That's just what ought means. — SophistiCat
seems to appreciate the joke. and not so much, still wanting a determination, which is somewhat of a surprise.We are, for better or worse, condemned to be free. — Moliere
Fundamentally, humans are driven to survival, not toward selfish promotion. If it works toward our survival that we abuse one another, we will, and the same holds true for cooperation. But we don't intuit our best survival techniques a priori. We learn through trial and error (natural selection). — Hanover
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