My hat is off to you! — Thinker

>:O

Here, let me try to clarify my point. If one male had experiences with women who are mostly gentle, then in his mind a stereotype may have formed that all women must be gentle. It is not true, hence my statement that it is incorrect to assume such a thing. If I may offer yet another example, many assume that because of my smaller being that I am incapable of doing activities such as combat fighting and flying an aircraft. I do those things, so I know as fact that there are other women who also do these things and are not mostly gentle. — Lone Wolf

That makes sense, although I am skeptical that many men have close relationships with women who they think are mostly gentle. In my experience, women are not nicer or gentler than men. That's not an intended as an insult.

many assume that because of my smaller being that I am incapable of doing activities such as combat fighting and flying an aircraft. — Lone Wolf

Alright, but do you think you'd stand a chance if you had to face, one on one, a 200-pound mugged faced unshaved rapist who lifts weights and trains like a bitch at the gym? From my experience, and martial arts has been one of my passions, size does play a very big role in a fight. Sure it's not the only relevant factor, but it is extremely important.

Here is another quote from earlier in this thread: — T Clark

You are quoting out of context.

I too am a theist. You think I'd give it away for free? Marriage is a wonderful institution. — River

And the creepy just keeps on coming.

And the creepy just keeps on coming. — T Clark

LOL! What's creepy about that now? :s You're certainly one weird man...

Alright, but do you think you'd stand a chance if you had to face, one on one, a 200-pound mugged faced unshaved rapist who lifts weights and trains like a bitch at the gym? From my experience, and martial arts has been one of my passions, size does play a very big role in a fight. Sure it's not the only relevant factor, but it is extremely important. — Agustino

That is beyond the topic of this thread, but yes, I think I stand a chance more so than one without any training at all. At the least, he will wish he would have picked on a different person. :P

but yes, I think I stand a chance more so than one without any training at all — Lone Wolf

Yes, you certainly do stand more of a chance than someone without any training, but do you think you'd win more often than not if the same fight repeated itself?

At the least, he will wish he would have picked on a different person. :P — Lone Wolf

lol - depends, he may enjoy the challenge of fighting someone more skilled :P

The feminine intellect is well suited to lead “by quiet suggestion, long leashes, and technical and professional quality”. I wish we, as a society, could see the values inherent in the feminine intellect. — Thinker

The feminine intellect understands the give and take – the flow of the human dynamic. They have learned this over the millenniums by having been beaten into submission. There is not all down side to submission. The up side is empathy, compassion – a willingness to see the other perspective. This is not a weakness! It is an incredible strength. The female perspective knows the other, not just because it has been forced on her. She knows it because she has the mothering instinct – whether she is a mother or not – it is built in. We need nurturing mothers/leaders now more than ever.

In my experience, women are not nicer or gentler than men. That's not an intended as an insult. — T Clark

Well, granted your "relationship" with women in this thread, it looks like you're asking for it to tell you the truth man. You're purposefully being disingenious, you're not reading their comments properly, you're misrepresenting, etc. so why would you expect them to be "nice" and "gentle"? You may be doing the same in real life, hence your experience.

Yes, you certainly do stand more of a chance than someone without any training, but do you think you'd win more often than not if the same fight repeated itself?

lol - depends, he may enjoy the challenge of fighting someone more skilled :P — Agustino

If you are asking if I am overly arrogant about my abilities, no, I am not. There are many better fighters than myself. Part of what I have been taught is to eliminate the threat, and avoid situations where you may be in danger if at all possible. So the same fight should not be repeated, and in the street, it is very rare to have a fight repeat itself exactly.

Part of what I have been taught is to eliminate the threat, and avoid situations where you may be in danger if at all possible. So the same fight should not be repeated, and in the street, it is very rare to have a fight repeat itself exactly. — Lone Wolf

Okay, I agree with all that, but my point really is that physical size plays an important role in fighting, a role which is often underestimated by people who train in martial arts but have little experience of actual fighting beyond sparring under fixed and set rules, with protective gear, etc.

I'd go as far as saying that physical size is one of the absolute main advantages one can have in a fight, almost as important as speed. So yes, I know your strategy when fighting someone bigger than you would most probably rely on trying to get away or escape the fight if at all possible, or otherwise incapacitate the person for however shortly so that you can run away. But most good fighters would also know this, so if they were to attack you, you wouldn't surprise them much with this strategy, unless you somehow successfully feigned a different intention. That's why it's a very tricky situation.

Well, granted your "relationship" with women in this thread, it looks like you're asking for it to tell you the truth man. You're purposefully being disingenious, you're not reading their comments properly, you're misrepresenting, etc. so why would you expect them to be "nice" and "gentle"? You may be doing the same in real life, hence your experience. — Agustino

Again, you respond to my statement by referring to my personal characteristics and your interpretation of my behavior rather than the substance of what I said. Bad philosophy.

I want to repost comments from earlier in this thread that I posted in another thread. I think this is important to understand how we got here and what the basis for civilization is:

“So, you bemoan the decay of the west. Ok – I bemoan the decay of the world, because we do not understand how civilization got here. Where do you think civilization comes from? How did it get its start? Think back – way back – in the cave – or even before the cave – what happened? Or, maybe I should first ask – what is civilization? Civilization is a social contract. People band together for mutual benefit – right? So, what is the first “banding” together for mutual benefit? It is a mother and a child. A mother and child is the first social contract and the foundation of all civilization. What holds a mother and child together – love. A mother loves her child because she loves herself. A mother loves herself because she learned love from her mother. A very practical dynamic – that - sets in motion a force - which humans use to propel themselves through life’s journey. What is the basis of civilization – it is the love bond between a mother and child. Love is a kind of contract between two beings. I call mother/child love the first human contract. It is an agreement to protect, nurture, cherish and persist. This contract is what gives civilization its start. More importantly – it is what holds civilization together – today and on into the future.

Want to save the world – honor and cherish women – now. It is not a guarantee – but it is a good start. You want a better world – support your local love machine – mother and child.”

How do we get away from what is important? It is actually pretty easy to understand. We think with our stomach instead of our head. What degrades civilization? It is thinking just about yourself or a segment of society – not all of the entire family of society. To be an individual and have accomplishments is fine. Do not forget where your society and values comes from and why we all need to protect them. Many a man and some women have lost their way – don’t be one of them.

The feminine intellect understands the give and take – the flow of the human dynamic. They have learned this over the millenniums by having been beaten into submission. There is not all down side to submission. The up side is empathy, compassion – a willingness to see the other perspective. This is not a weakness! It is an incredible strength. The female perspective knows the other, not just because it has been forced on her. She knows it because she has the mothering instinct – whether she is a mother or not – it is built in. We need nurturing mothers/leaders now more than ever. — Thinker

"The feminine intellect..." Geez Loweez. "understands the give and take - the flow of the human dynamic." Aaaaah. "She knows it because she has the mothering instinct – whether she is a mother or not – it is built in. We need nurturing mothers/leaders now more than ever." Are you a woman? Are you married to a woman? Have you ever had a girlfriend? A sister? These are your fantasies, not reality. Pseudopsychology. Pseudobiology. Pseudophilosophy.

See - I increased the scope of my question, since I've gotten into so much trouble with my unwarranted assumptions today. I don't want Augustino to call me names again.

See - I increased the scope of my question, since I've gotten into so much trouble with my unwarranted assumptions today. I don't want Augustino to call me names again. — T Clark

Yes, now you're being smart...

It may not be helpful to ask the OP if he has a girlfriend. If the OP believes all women are afraid of men, his girlfriend or wife is probably afraid of him, as his mother was afraid of his father or boyfriend.

Some people really don't realize there's another way to live and interact.

So, what is my purpose in this thread? Am I here to convince those ardent oppositional thinkers of the righteousness of my viewpoint? That would be a fool’s errand and I have no such illusion. Rather, my intention is to explore my perspective and to understand it myself; and to reach an audience that perhaps will consider some of my finer points. Ideas have power. Ideas truly do move and shape the world. We as philosophers have a responsibility to help society find its way. First we have to find out what road we are on. Then, by the grace of this beautiful forum, we share our thoughts and hope someone is listening. There are many people listening to this thread. Some few participate – others just watch. That is all good.

Like Lincoln said, I want to appeal to your better angels. I want a better world. Is our continuation on this planet a sure thing? No, it is not for sure. Can we do a better job? I certainly hope so. What do you propose - The status quo - Revolution in the streets? Do you have a thought or two that you think will help? Please share your perspective.

So, what is my purpose in this thread? — Thinker

Yeah, good question.

Let's state the obvious. Women have traditionally been relegated to submissive roles due to the power structure in place. Barriers have been reduced, but not eliminated. Some women have transcended those traditional roles through special effort, others have fully consented to embracing those traditional roles, and others still have tried but failed to overcome the limitations imposed by their social situation. That is to say that whatever successes elude women (other than those requiring brute muscle), is the result of environment, not some inherent leadership, intellectual, or emotional deficiency existing specially in women.

Are we really having this discussion?

Let's state the obvious. — Hanover

I don't disagree with much of what you've said, but you either have not been paying attention or are being needlessly provocative. It is not obvious to many who are participating in this thread that what you say is true. A cursory reading of previous posts would make that clear. How many of those posts have you read?

It is a common rhetorical ploy on this site to state that one's position is obvious or self-evident. That is almost never true.

T Clark It may not be helpful to ask the OP if he has a girlfriend. If the OP believes all women are afraid of men, his girlfriend or wife is probably afraid of him, as his mother was afraid of his father or boyfriend.

Some people really don't realize there's another way to live and interact. — Mongrel

Now Mongrel, don't be mean to Thinker. You know he didn't say women are afraid of men. What he and Augustino have been saying is actually worse.

You know he didn't say women are afraid of men. — T Clark

He said it repeatedly. He also suggested that the ideal status of a woman is submission.

Let's state the obvious. Women have traditionally been relegated to submissive roles due to the power structure in place. Barriers have been reduced, but not eliminated. Some women have transcended those traditional roles through special effort, others have fully consented to embracing those traditional roles, and others still have tried but failed to overcome the limitations imposed by their social situation. That is to say that whatever successes elude women (other than those requiring brute muscle), is the result of environment, not some inherent leadership, intellectual, or emotional deficiency existing specially in women.

Are we really having this discussion? — Hanover

(Y) (Y) (Y) (Y)

He said it repeatedly. He also suggested that the ideal status of a woman is submission. — Mongrel

Not to be pedantic, but the words "fear" and "afraid" have not been used in relation to women being afraid of men in this thread. Except by you and me.

Here's a Country Western Dialogue on who is responsible for the state of man/woman relationships.

I didn't know God made honky tonk angels
I might have known you'd never make a wife
You gave up the only one that ever loved you
And went back to the wild side of life
— Hank Thompson

It wasn't God who made honky tonk angels
As you said in the words of your song
Too many times married men
Think they're still single
That has caused many a good girl to go wrong — Kitty Wells

That's great. What song helps us understand homosexual relationships?

Dude comes into the emergency department burned extra crispy. Why? Dude is gay and he went to a bar and picked up Crazy MF. The two proceeded to a hotel room and Crazy tied Dude to a chair, covered him with gasoline and threw a match at him.

Down in the lobby the guy behind the desk sniffs barbecue and calls the fire department. The firemen locate the room and amazingly, Dude is still alive. He and his partner had agreed to go out for one last fling before committing to one another. And then this happened. True story.

According to the OP, this sort of thing has been happening for thousands of years, resulting in homosexual men being smart enough to be submissive to straight men because you never know when one of them is going to turn out to be Crazy. But we need not think of this as a bad thing.

The submissiveness of a gay man is beautiful. We all stand to learn something from it.

Honky Tonk Women, less twang & more base

Stones version:

Gay lyrics? Check out last verse, latter Mick and Bowie apparently had a fling. This is an alternate version of the song.

Strollin' on the boulevards of Paris
Naked as the day that I will die
The sailors, they're so charming there in Paris
But I just don't seem to sail you off my mind

Dude comes into the emergency department burned extra crispy.

I can't imagine. How long have you done this, and does it make you indifferent to the disaster, are you only interested in the mechanism or how does that work?

Like I said, I can't imagine doing what you do.

I'm in the moment most of the time when I'm at work. Some stories stick with me. I've been in the hospital myself in bad shape. That informs a lot of my interactions with people.

What song helps us understand homosexual relationships? — Mongrel

Just off hand, I can't think of any specifically gay songs about gay relationships. Not a lot of songs (of the sort I might listen to) have been written about gay men's relationships.

More that I can think of just have (or were given) a gay sensibility --

Like It's raining Men by the Weather Girls


or Jet Boy Jet Girl by Elton Motello (he gives me head -- it's straight-up gay)

True story. — Mongrel

Horrible story.

According to the OP, this sort of thing has been happening for thousands of years, resulting in homosexual men being smart enough to be submissive to straight men because you never know when one of them is going to turn out to be Crazy. But we need not think of this as a bad thing. — Mongrel

I went back and looked carefully at the OP and I just don't find anything about gay men there, let alone about crazy straight guys. But what's the lesson? Don't go home with strangers? Avoid crazy MFs? That last, certainly -- if one can tell.

Some gay guys specialize in straight men, others avoid them (for sexual purposes, at least) like the plague. I've always thought that life was complicated enough trying to sort out a bar full of faggots, let alone trying to sort out the straight nice guys from the straight male psychopaths.

The submissiveness of a gay man is beautiful. We all stand to learn something from it. — Mongrel

What kind of submissiveness are you talking about? Is the bottom being submissive or is he cooperating to get what he wants? Is the top being dominant or is he also cooperating to get what he wants? Some guys are definitely into the dominant/submissive angle. Others, not so much. Some, not at all. Some are versatile -- can be top, bottom, submissive, dominant. Flexi-fuckers.