Depth

Art48

Along with the usual dimensions of space and time, there is another dimension I’ll call depth. We live at depth zero. If we travel down to molecules, then atoms, electrons, and quarks, the value of the depth dimension gets more and more negative. As we travel up to the moon, the solar system, the Milky Way galaxy, and further, the depth dimension gets more and more positive. (Search the web for “Powers of Ten” for a graphic depiction of depth.)

Does the depth dimension go to infinity in either or both directions? As depth decreases, do we find smaller and smaller entities? Do we find something that underlies quarks and quantum fields, that itself is supported by something else, ad infinitum? As depth increases, do we go beyond the universe, into a universe of universes, which itself is contained in something else, ad infinitum?

If depth has an ultimate floor, then the floor must be something which is utterly simple, pure, and homogeneous. For if the floor had parts, then the parts themselves would be at a lower depth. Some people have stipulated that there indeed is an utterly pure and simple entity and have called it “God.” Some religions stop there and do not go on to attribute personal qualities to God. Their God is not one who desires to be loved and/or obeyed, or who intervenes in human affairs such as causing scriptures to be written. Their God shines like the sun, impersonally, on good and evil alike. But if there is an ultimate floor which is God, then that God is an immanent God, a God who underlies all existence, who in some religions is all existence.

If depth has an ultimate ceiling, then the ceiling must be above everything we know, beyond to observable universe, utterly transcendent. This, too, has been called “God.” A transcendent God, almost of necessity, must be a person. For such a God must have a desire to communicate with us; otherwise, how could we ever know such a God existed? If it utterly transcends everything we know, then we obviously have no reason to suspect it exists unless it provides some clues, in the form of miracles and scriptures.

Of course, if ultimate floor or ceiling do exist, we need not regard them as God. It's our choice. Some people may find it difficult to imagine an ultimate floor or ceiling which is not a supernatural being. But there are all sorts of things which are difficult to imagine but nonetheless true. One example is the time dilation of Relativity theory. Another example is that on the other side of the Earth, people and oceans at the very moment are hanging upside down.

T Clark

Does the depth dimension go to infinity in either or both directions? — Art48

The phenomenon you call depth is generally known as scale. There is speculation that there is a minimum scale, called Planck scale, with specific dimensions of time, energy, length. Here's some information:

In particle physics and physical cosmology, Planck units are a set of units of measurement defined exclusively in terms of four universal physical constants, in such a manner that these physical constants take on the numerical value of 1 when expressed in terms of these units. Originally proposed in 1899 by German physicist Max Planck, these units are a system of natural units because their definition is based on properties of nature, more specifically the properties of free space, rather than a choice of prototype object. They are relevant in research on unified theories such as quantum gravity.

The term Planck scale refers to quantities of space, time, energy and other units that are similar in magnitude to corresponding Planck units. This region may be characterized by particle energies of around 1019 GeV or 109 J, time intervals of around 10−43 s and lengths of around 10−35 m (approximately the energy-equivalent of the Planck mass, the Planck time and the Planck length, respectively). At the Planck scale, the predictions of the Standard Model, quantum field theory and general relativity are not expected to apply, and quantum effects of gravity are expected to dominate. The best-known example is represented by the conditions in the first 10−43 seconds of our universe after the Big Bang, approximately 13.8 billion years ago. — Wikipedia - Planck Units

180 Proof

↪Art48

Assuming that the observable universe is the interior of a black hole, this dynamic structure – Spinoza-Einstein's natura naturans – expands an unbounded, positive, Everettian volume which spans from the Planck scale to the Hubble-Schwarzschild scale. Perhaps one day a testable theory of quantum gravity (QG) will fill out the significant, devilish details of such a speculative, holistic picture. However, I fail to see how (your) suggested 'ontological transcendence' follows or makes any more sense than the concept of 'south of the South Pole'.

jgill

The phenomenon you call depth is generally known as scale — T Clark

:up: :roll:

Wayfarer

If depth has an ultimate floor, then the floor must be something which is utterly simple, pure, and homogeneous. — Art48

The idea of looking within, is not looking into the fine structure of matter, but paying close attention to the nature of lived experience. You can zoom in as far as you like on the micro-circuitry of your television set, but you'll never find a story there.

TheMadMan

If depth has an ultimate ceiling, then the ceiling must be above everything we know, beyond to observable universe, utterly transcendent. This, too, has been called “God.” — Art48

Reality ultimately must be as the symbol of the circle not the line. So the ceiling and the floor are the same.

A transcendent God, almost of necessity, must be a person. For such a God must have a desire to communicate with us; otherwise, how could we ever know such a God existed? If it utterly transcends everything we know, then we obviously have no reason to suspect it exists unless it provides some clues, in the form of miracles and scriptures. — Art48

This conclusion comes from the minds tendency to anthropomorphize anything that it doesn't understand.
Transcendence is not in space, - universe + God - but beyond space.

You can zoom in as far as you like on the micro-circuitry of your television set, but you'll never find a story there — Wayfarer

Beautiful.

Art48

So the ceiling and the floor are the same. — TheMadMan

If so, it would seem we are seeing different sides of the same thing when we look down and up. Atma is Brahman?

TheMadMan

↪Art48

an Brahman is Atma

180 Proof

The idea of looking within, is not looking into the fine structure of matter, but paying close attention to the nature of lived experience. You can zoom in as far as you like on the micro-circuitry of your television set, but you'll never find a story there. — Wayfarer

:victory: :smirk:

Reality ~~ultimately~~ must be as the symbol of the circle not the line. So the ceiling and the floor are the same. — TheMadMan

:fire:

Depth

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