IOW: Whatever you do, whyever you think you're doing it, somebody's going to call it self-interest. — Vera Mont
Ok. Off topic, but it sounds like control or autonomy is very important to you. I'm always fascinated by how different we are despite all the ways in which we are alike. — Tom Storm
I don't know whether we can even tell in theory what motivates us. It's not all that important to me, to be honest. My intuition says self-interest is probably inescapable, but this comes in soft and hard versions and we need to recognize that self-interest is not incompatible with altruism. — Tom Storm
If you want to rant that everyone must be as selfish and run by emotions as you, then go ahead. There are plenty of us in life who work to overcome emotions because they understand that some outcomes are better for the world then their own pleasure or happiness. The fact that you don't believe it says everything about yourself. You need to go meet more people in the world. Go volunteer at a place you don't want to. Do something that you know is right, but makes you uncomfortable. Then think about it. You need to experience it for yourself before you start making judgement about other people. — Philosophim
My intuition says self-interest is probably inescapable, but this comes in soft and hard versions and we need to recognize that self-interest is not incompatible with altruism. — Tom Storm
I really like this aphorism. I feel like moral life is a difficult beast. It entangles us in words, representations, and ideas. But none of it makes sense unless one chooses to be moral. This is why most famed philosophers utterly fail to write coherently about it. — kudos
I really like this aphorism. — kudos
I wasn't passing judgment on you or anyone else, instead I was talking about some basic psychological principles that you seem to be completely unfamiliar with. — Jacques
By the way, try to remember when you were stuck in a traffic jam and were happy for the other side because they had a free ride. A true altruist in such a situation would say to himself, "I'm so glad it hit me and not them!" — Jacques
Kant is still top of my list in this domain, nobody else I’ve encountered has dug deeper yet. — kudos
I have found a passage in the "Groundwork of the Metaphysics of Morals" that, in my opinion, can serve as evidence that Kant justifies the categorical imperative with self-interest, thus contradicting himself. — Jacques
Nahhh….that’s not what he’s doing. He’s showing how the moral subject contradicts himself — Mww
social enterprise and about cooperation and flourishing, then the idea that there is something in it for us all to be moral is possibly inescapable. — Tom Storm
Whatever we do in the morality space will be flawed and inadequate, just like human beings — Tom Storm
I feel like moral life is a difficult beast. It entangles us in words, representations, and ideas. But none of it makes sense unless one chooses to be moral. — kudos
Morality is good at defining good and evil, i. e. what we would like others (and ourselves) to do. But it is bad at making people do good and avoid evil. (I am talking about adults.)
It is true, it does no harm to say "Be good!" but it is also useless, at least in my opinion. People always do what is in accordance with their nature.
It is in the nature of one to do good and in the nature of the other to do bad; we're not all the same, are we?If it is in our nature to do bad, how can it at the same time not be in our nature to do good? — kudos
I am not saying that we should expect this, but rather that this has been observed many times throughout history.What you say is that we should expect moral law, custom, and rule to be transgressed. — kudos
No, it makes me rather sad. I would wish that all people were good, but unfortunately that is not the case. Do you disagree?Doesn’t this seem ridiculous to you? — kudos
"No creature can be honorably required to go counter to the law of his nature -- the Law of God." — Jacques
In my opinion, people only do something if they expect it to benefit them, and not because they ought to do it. — Jacques
That's a toughie, given that the law of God as taught by most religions runs counter to the laws of nature; that good moral behaviour requires that one suppress one's animal instinct and repudiate one's animal drives. — Vera Mont
Do you really want that ? A world that abhors pain. — kudos
Do you truly hate your villains or envy them? — kudos
Well the way I see it is that nature itself is creative and destructive. It's chaotic and ordered. — Benj96
And this is why we start seeing more chaotic, antagonistic bahaviour among chimpanzees. Among humans, it becomes full-scale internecine war - not merely against other other bands of one's own species, but within tribes and even families.Humans on the other hand, excel in abstraction, imagination, reasoning etc (cognition) and have one of the most complex languages to reflect that. Thus we can go against instinct if we so wish. — Benj96
Not in stratified civilizations. A lord can, a serf can't. A general can, a galley slave can't. A CEO can, a coal miner can't.We can be as self serving or as socially cooperative as we like. — Benj96
Separate issues, those. Grouse hens deliberately lure predators away from their chicks; a vixen will attack a bear to protect her cubs; ants die by the hundreds to protect their hill.Sacrifice and suicide being prime examples of how we overcome our primal instinct to self preserve. — Benj96
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