And the Lord God commanded Adam, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat: But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.
— Genesis 2:16–17
1In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2The same was in the beginning with God. 3All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. 4In him was life; and the life was the light of men. 5And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not. — John 1:1
And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth. — John 1:14
—————————————————————————————Today is gonna be the day that they're gonna throw it back to you
And by now, you should've somehow realised what you gotta do
I don't believe that anybody feels the way I do about you now
And backbeat, the word is on the street that the fire in your heart is out
I'm sure you've heard it all before, but you never really had a doubt
I don't believe that anybody feels the way I do about you now
And all the roads we have to walk are winding
And all the lights that lead us there are blinding
There are many things that I would like to say to you, but I don't know how
Because maybe
You're gonna be the one that saves me
And after all
You're my wonderwall — Noel Gallagher
[1] Judge not, that ye be not judged.
[2] For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.
[3] And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?
[4] Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye?
[5] Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye. — Matthew7
Interesting post! But I apologize for ignoring your warning, and getting-in over my head. I'll only comment on the quoted line, which corresponds to my own unarticulated & unscientific, notion of first person Self Concept : as the metaphorical recorder & narrator of one's own personal history (memory).And the beginning was the beginning of psychological time which is the beginning of the story, the beginning of the narrator, the beginning of self. — unenlightened
The scientific/philosophical problem with that religious notion, is "where is the personal history/memory recorded for self and posterity, if not in the brain?" — Gnomon
:fire:The story i am telling here is that the preservation of the story - of the self - is of no importance; what matters is the completion of the story, in which once is for all. — unenlightened
But one always stands outside the story as narrator to tell the story. One is absent from the story one tells, because the story is related, and even the closest relation is not oneself, in the same way that god is outside his creation. — unenlightened
If the self is a story comprised of an imaginary character, why then do we create fictional stories on top of it with extra imaginary characters? And where do they come from? — Changeling
Isn't there such a thing as a first person narrative, in which the narrator is part of the story? — Metaphysician Undercover
I think that this state of conflict you describe is artificial, contrived, because there is no need to consider alternatives for the past narrative, like you suggest, because we have no choice at this time. — Metaphysician Undercover
Every case of consciousness is dramatic; drama is an enhancement of the conditions of consciousness.
It is impossible to tell what immediate consciousness is not because there is some mystery in or behind it, but for the same reason that we cannot tell just what sweet or red immediately is: it is something had, not communicated and known. But words, as means of directing action, may evoke a situation in which the thing in question is had in some particularly illuminating way* It seems to me that anyone who installs himself in the midst of the unfolding of drama has the experience of consciousness in just this sort of way; in a way which enables him to give significance to descriptive and analytic terms otherwise meaningless. There must be a story, some whole, an integrated series of episodes. This connected whole is mind, as it extends beyond a particular process of consciousness and conditions it. — John Dewey, Experience and Nature, page 306
Given enough of that, the person could very well believe that they are more considerate of others than they actually are/were... — creativesoul
The story so far is that we (humans) have fallen out of the present continuous of living, into a story that is always a moral story, always judgemental. We do not live in what is, but in what was, what might have been what could be and what ought to be and ought to have been.
There can be no return to the innocence of not knowing. But we live in the story of what ought to be, and it contradicts what is that we still also inhabit, willy-nilly — and the only way to resolve that conflict is to make the word flesh; which is to say to make the life we lead the same as the life we know we ought to lead. — unenlightened
You are lost in an endless forest of signposts all pointing in different directions. — unenlightened
in fact I think that this identification with the past is the necessary first step to a projection into the future. — unenlightened
There can only be any idea at all of the future as a projection from the past. — unenlightened
It seems to me that you're completely missing the point.
It's the stories we tell ourselves about ourselves and the world around us that constitute the self. — creativesoul
Wants and desires are the product of a being looking forward in time, toward the future. — Metaphysician Undercover
I'm not sure what this story is about. Can you dumb it down? (I did read your comments above) — Tom Storm
... someone who has not privileged philosophy and is a fairly crude thinker, — Tom Storm
― Friedrich Nietzsche, Thus Spoke Zarathustra.“Man is something that shall be overcome. Man is a rope,tied between beast and overman — a rope over an abyss.What is great in man is that he is a bridge and not an end.”
This is an idea you have of yourself that you identify with, and claim as your self, in relation to some meaningful others. There must be many other relations, familial, professional, neighbourly, social, from which you derive all sorts of other characterisations — the joker of the family, the only one in the office who actually does anything, the fight defuser at the bar, the guy who always came top in metalwork at school. And the sum of these various ideas is your 'narrative identity'. and all your experiences are the experiences of that identity, and your response are the responses of that identity, which develops through time with experience. And this self is always comparative and thereby judgemental - I am smarter than a brick and faster than a snail, but not as beautiful as a sunset.
A non-linguistic animal cannot form a narrative identity; they learn things - not to eat the yellow snow, but they never form the identity "I don't like yellow snow", they just avoid it when they see it. So they do not live in time, psychologically. they are always just here and now, with whatever they know, which is nothing of themselves. — unenlightened
And the crux of all this as you have correctly identified, you crude thinker, you, is that I propose a state of enlightenment, where the self is 'transcended' and one again lives without time and without the comparing judgement that becomes morality, but retaining the glorious creative potential of language. This is the fulfilment of human potential, and the end of the narrative self that otherwise has to end in mere death. — unenlightened
I am unclear how comparing judgment becomes morality. — Tom Storm
Genesis.1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.
2 The earth was without form, and void; and darkness was on the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God was hovering over the face of the waters.
3 Then God said, “Let there be light”; and there was light.
4 And God saw the light, that it was good; and God divided the light from the darkness.
5 God called the light Day, and the darkness He called Night. So the evening and the morning were the first day.
Mummy called the repressed child 'Being good, and the spontaneous child She called Being naughty. So the evening and the morning were the first day of the moralising child. — unenlightened
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