-
Italy
21I'll start it with a little story:
I woke up, open my computer as usual.
Opened youtube, as a ritual by now, now the things that I love can wait a bit, don't they?
So I scroll, scroll till I find something which peaks my interest: It was a documentary, nothing much but it was pretty interesting!
"Alright! Now time to work on-" Oh but wait! This ARG deepdive also looks pretty interesting, it is also made by my favorite creator too? Well-
So I click, and click, and click again. All videos so well done, all the topics so intricate: each media so full of little tid bits, and attention to detail, and complex information, and beauty, and care;
Rather than a warm feeling of gratuted from these, I slowly found myself with a strange headach. Sleep usually helped me in times like this , so I just lay my head and close my eyes, and, well, I wake up:
"Maybe I should try to start that project I wanted to do for a while, it could be cool; I even have the plans and- Ehh, maaybe I could just scroll through pinterest to find some 'inspiration'"
So I scroll, and scroll, and scroll again. After the usual filtering of the thrist trap, I found somethings that peaked my interest. The art was pretty, complex with its own little meaning and idea attached to it. I just felt like a child wanting to draw what the "big painters" drawed again, really.
And the headache started again.
"Saturated Beauty/ when beauty becomes noise"
Where do I start? Where would I end, bombardment from all sides and fronts by meaning.
Every piece filled to the brim with significance of its own, with "beauty" of its own so complicated and yet so deserving of attention. How do I split my sight?
If I would try to start with this painting's niceness, it will take me ages; If I would try with this one's instead, it would take me decades; with everything asking for so much time and being so easy to get, that enjoyment becomes a chore. More complexity, everywhere my sight sees Mona Lisa, a Starry Night; It doesn't make me feel small or insegnificant persay though, as "I won't ever get to their level", it just make me feel over run.
"Ah yet this one holds an other lifetime story, of adventure and growth; That is art." but where do I start if everything I see, minute by minute, time by time again and agian is the adventure of my life? Where do I start first, and where my starting will end?
The internet; Leading role . It is true that dopamine today is something instant, it is saturated. Art too, everywhere we see it is today; As it is the internet. Beauty, beautiful, beautiful things everywhere; worked masterpieaces everywhere, all beautiful all saturated. How could I even dare enjoy an art piece, if they are so complex and time consuming, and how could I not, when their also so wanted. All too complex, oh, when would I have time of them all, to 'love' them all, to 'understand' them all; To just read through them all? Why do such chore?
This is the feeling of "Saturated beauty", when beauty becomes noise and enjoyment of art becomes chore, the feeling that every librarian probably had in small doses; The silly feeling that I wished to share with you, as I find it pretty cool.
*If it stings at you, I'll say best to take a breather, calm as you know; as it is almost the same as 'dopamine desensitization'. Till then, hey! Be happy that you felt it, life's always good with some salt! And as all other stingy-feelings, neighter deserve such spot of atention. -
Judaka
1.7k
There's a similar feeling with nature, there are so many amazing landscapes a few clicks away, but scrolling through a catalogue of them, they feel like novelties, I feel nothing. To actually be in the moment, and appreciate what I'm seeing, to let my imagination run wild and to experience something, that's what makes art beautiful. Just going from thing to thing, scrolling through dozens of pictures, it's an easy trap to fall into but lacks feeling, one must slow down and pay their respects, to be immersed. Thanks for the reminder. -
T Clark
13.9kThis is the feeling of "Saturated beauty", when beauty becomes noise and enjoyment of art becomes chore, the feeling that every librarian probably had in small doses; The silly feeling that I wished to share with you, as I find it pretty cool. — Italy
I'm an engineer, not an artist. But you and I do share a characteristic - a vast upwelling of energy that spills out and is hard to keep pointed in the right direction. I've been diagnosed as bipolar, although friends who should know tell me it's more like ADHD.
When I get in a situation like what you describe, I stop thinking and just let the experience wash over me without trying to process it. That doesn't feel right, because I know I'm missing important stuff. Luckily, I can come back later and go through it again. At that point, my mind has taken what I saw originally and built a mental framework for dealing with it. That happens all by itself in the black box of my unconscious.
When I was working as an engineer, I had this image that came to me when I was starting a new project. My head had a hole in the top with a funnel. I would pour all the information - text, figures, maps, tables - in at the top of my head. Then I would wait for a while and it would organize it in my head. Then I could go back through all the data again with a framework I could attach the information to. During the course of the project, I would go though that process over and over, usually with other people. What we called the site conceptual model (SCM) would be refined and revised as that process proceeded. -
wonderer1
2.2kWhen I was working as an engineer, I had this image that came to me when I was starting a new project. My head had a hole in the top with a funnel. I would pour all the information - text, figures, maps, tables - in at the top of my head. Then I would wait for a while and it would organize it in my head. — T Clark
:up: -
Noble Dust
7.9kThis is the feeling of "Saturated beauty", when beauty becomes noise and enjoyment of art becomes chore, the feeling that every librarian probably had in small doses; The silly feeling that I wished to share with you, as I find it pretty cool. — Italy
Yes, the art (no pun intended) of sitting with a work of art without distractions for an extended period of time is, well, a lost art. But museums and concerts and performances still exist, and perhaps are even more valuable in the internet age. In the past, they were the only way to experience art, but now they're the way we can experience art in it's most immediate form.
If you're feeling overwhelmed, visit an art museum if you can. Find something that grabs your attention, preferably not even something you necessarily "like" or find beautiful, and sit with it for at least 20 minutes. Just make yourself do it. You will not regret it. If you don't have access to an art museum, just find an object, whether in nature or something man made, and do the same thing. Observe it for at least 20 minutes. -
Italy
21
Thank you thank you, magical talking crow; I indeed see myself in you too, eerier, I enjoy myself designing things, and I kinda have a similar process to yours too lol;Forgot to say - welcome to the forum. — T Clark
Well, well, I am just so happy you found a way of going through that feeling, too.
I , for myself, I just hope you have a good day too! -
Italy
21You will not regret it. If you don't have access to an art museum, just find an object, whether in nature or something man made, and do the same thing. Observe it for at least 20 minutes.
On the idea of beauty; I myself am of the belief that beauty itself it's not found, but rather more made; Indeed, beauty will have a huge technical side; But in this case of "just scrolling" I believe the other side, the beauty "which you make" is just lost.
One shall then try to engage with that side as that one is still needed, and hey, from that side: one will still be able to enjoy art, to learn from art, and to get meaning from art.
So the valuing of that side too is important (even from just those two standpoints), and where I wanted to go at: doing such exercise is great for waking it up! So really, thank you for sharing! They sound cool -
Noble Dust
7.9k
-
T Clark
13.9kmagical talking crow
— Italy
I'm going to start referring to T Clark in this way. — Noble Dust
No magic involved. And no talking - just typing. -
jgill
3.9kI am an old man and my feeling is that, compared with sixty years ago, there is too much of everything. Hardly anything stands out from a prolific environment, whether visual art or mathematics (the latter was my profession) or you name it. How can something have meaning when there are so many somethings?
It's an existential challenge made more difficult now with so much being done. (And so many brighter than oneself :cool: ) -
universeness
6.3kI am an old man and my feeling is that, compared with sixty years ago, there is too much of everything. — jgill
It is estimated that there are more planets in the universe than there are grains of sand in all the deserts and beaches of Earth. I bet old human people in the very distant future who have visited or looked at pictures /vids of more and more real exoplanets (rather than artists impressions), will still love the Earth most of all, cause its home!
I think it's the art you produce yourself that is the best art ever, be it a doodle or a painting loved by others. You have to be alive to do art! I love my oil paintings as the best paintings ever. I accept that it's only me that thinks so, but I love that wonderful personal delusion/illusion, as unlike many delusions, that one does not hurt the life of anyone else.
Here is one of my oil paintings so you can love it as I do, old man! :lol:
-
jgill
3.9kThat's inspirational, Uni Man! I wish I had artistic talent. A great Aunt of mine painted the portrait of Alben Barkley, VP under Truman, and my aunt was very talented, as is my daughter. Skipped me. My only claim to art are the unpredictable images that came forth from an obscure branch of mathematics I have dabbled in for years.
Dream of Gold -
Jack Cummins
5.3k
What you describe reminds me of Aldous Huxley's, 'The Doors of Perception' in which the person in a mescaline-induced state of consciousness is mesmerised and overwhelmed by aesthetic experiences. Huxley's thinking also draws upon Henri Bergson's idea of perception as a filter. If we were able to perceive all the potential stimuli on a sensory level it would be overwhelming. So, the brain filters it down in order to enable functionality on a biological level.
If anything the way human beings are expected to perform in education and especially in work, may have gone too far, in leaving out art and aesthetics. It is something which I struggle with (without being on mescaline) because I do approach life from more of an arts based perspective and find it hard to switch off from aesthetic appreciation in order to simply 'perform' at times. So, I am sometimes criticised for being a daydreamer and unable to multitask in a a time when people are being expected to perform more and more like automated robots.
However, I realise that what you are saying in your outpost is a little different because you are seeing beauty as made, including on the internet. It can be like this for people working in a free way like web site designers, or even when we are writing on this forum. However, when it is about being overseen by managers in organisations with performance goals att and aesthetics is often cast aside. The life of dopamine pleasure is strictly in one's private life and time. -
universeness
6.3k
-
universeness
6.3k
Sorry, should have checked the details about the painter, before posting the painting! :roll:
I assume you aunt was not called Boris Chaliapin!! -
jgill
3.9kI was told she did the White House portrait, but now I can find no reference to a painting by a woman. So maybe it was a tale and not a fact. :chin:
-
universeness
6.3k
No worries, happens all the time within families. Would be nice to see one of your Aunts paintings though. -
jgill
3.9kCoooool fractal based image! — universeness
Not quite. There is no repeated configuration at varying scales, just an obvious symmetry. It arises from a self-generating Euler reverse continued fraction involving sines and cosines in the complex plane, and appears HERE.
In math, fractals are usually produced by much simpler iterative schemes.
But, I've created a large number of such images by going beyond iteration of a single function, and after a while one feels the "noise" and "saturation" of too much beauty. -
kudos
407Beauty is normally divided between something produced versus something appreciated. One can enact beauty and feel no pleasure but the pleasure of another. That this can become a role, as something possible and really institutionalized or custom-ized, underlies the pure exchange. There really isn't anything of this super-structure in mechanical reproduction, the lack of anything besides what is produced and what is consumed is the ideology and serves the ends of modern art: exchange, identity, pleasure, voyeurism. These products will produce the dopamine effect in the viewer and are part of the overall tactility-orientation of the Internet art medium. It is like a new set of genitals that we explore in a constant state of puberty. -
universeness
6.3k
This is where my command of all things mathematical will probably fail me.
Based on your wiki link and that a composition series is a normal series without repetition, do the program function(s)/procedure(s) that created the 'Dream of Gold' image, not employ recursion?
So one or more of the functions/procedures your code employs will call itself.
The content of one or more variables will be altered between recursions, and will normally include a randomised factor, right?
Some conditional is normally employed to terminate the recursion, yes?
So, this causes interesting patterns to appear, yes?
This is similar to how fractal patterns are produced, is it not?
I get that the difference is that there is not a scaled repeat of a basic fractal but the principle is very similar, is it not? -
jgill
3.9k
When I think of fractals I think of the Mandelbrot Set, although the definition has gone far beyond that example and into normal everyday conversations to mean intricate patterns in the plane. Iteration is at the heart of the topic and that is a kind of recursion. The following illustrates the basic difference between a Mandelbrot set and what I do:
, with complex variables.
You go systematically across the complex -plane and paint the points where the composition function is well-behaved for a predetermined value of n, say n=1,000.
For ,
You go systematically across the complex plane and paint the points colors depending upon how large the composition function is at that point.
There is no randomized factor in either case. Note that the Mandelbrot set is simple iteration at each point of the plane, whereas my example involves an infinite number of functions in the iteration process.
However, the Chaos Game is another approach that includes randomness. Beyond my scope of knowledge.
I use very simple BASIC programs I have written for the images of my examples. -
universeness
6.3kwhereas my example involves an infinite number of functions in the iteration process. — jgill
What condition do you use to terminate your program? -
Italy
21Oh, sorry to hear that! In what I wrote, I tried to talk more about the anxiety to "start liking the art", but this too is a pretty prevalent feeling under the same umbrella of "a saturation in something"; Hope atleast you now enjoy art a little bit nicer!
The thing I want to ask though, and sorry if my question is too outrageous, but why ya'll are birds/demi birds in here? -
praxis
6.5kIn what I wrote, I tried to talk more about the anxiety to "start liking the art" — Italy
I'm still having trouble interpreting your meaning or point, but I'm intrigued. I appreciate beauty in art though I'm generally more interested in aesthetic experience, which doesn't necessarily require beauty, or rather what we typically regard as beautiful.
Hope atleast you now enjoy art a little bit nicer! — Italy
It was a good lesson I think. Have been decidedly more selective since and avoid that kind of overload.
The thing I want to ask though, and sorry if my question is too outrageous, but why ya'll are birds/demi birds in here? — Italy
Jamal, the owner of this website, is a famous birder. Rumor has it that he's rediscovered several species that were thought to be extinct and some of us have adopted bird avatars to honor that achievement, and perhaps garner his favor in a subtle unobtrusive way. I suggest you do the same. -
jgill
3.9kwhereas my example involves an infinite number of functions in the iteration process. — jgill
What condition do you use to terminate your program? — universeness
The theory of convergence involves all the functions. In practice, on the computer, I simply specify N. Usually N=100 or 1000. -
Italy
21
You know the idea of flight, fight, or freeze? Well, when somebody is shown with a pletera of complexity, a pletera of art - that somebody feels like they need to indulge in each a substantial ammount of time; One will act in these three ways;I'm still having trouble interpreting your meaning or point, but I'm intrigued. — praxis
What I was trying to talk more about in here is the "freeze" respounse; The longing of "why art can't just be more simpler?" , which i'll say again; It's aa pretty interesting feeling. I can understand how you may be intrigued lol
Or something in those lines, just think of it as "the burden of making a choice between your two favorite flavours of icecream" if it's kinda hard to figure out through the "fight, flight, or freeze" idea.
Hope I helped making it clearer!
Jamal, the owner of this website, is a famous birder. Rumor has it that he's rediscovered several species that were thought to be extinct and some of us have adopted bird avatars to honor that achievement, and perhaps garner his favor in a subtle unobtrusive way. I suggest you do the same. — praxis
Oh so a cult cool cool
Welcome to The Philosophy Forum!
Get involved in philosophical discussions about knowledge, truth, language, consciousness, science, politics, religion, logic and mathematics, art, history, and lots more. No ads, no clutter, and very little agreement — just fascinating conversations.
Categories
- Guest category
- The Lounge
- General Philosophy
- Metaphysics & Epistemology
- Philosophy of Mind
- Ethics
- Political Philosophy
- Philosophy of Art
- Logic & Philosophy of Mathematics
- Philosophy of Religion
- Philosophy of Science
- Philosophy of Language
- Interesting Stuff
- Politics and Current Affairs
- Humanities and Social Sciences
- Science and Technology
- Non-English Discussion
- German Discussion
- Spanish Discussion
- Learning Centre
- Resources
- Books and Papers
- Reading groups
- Questions
- Guest Speakers
- David Pearce
- Massimo Pigliucci
- Debates
- Debate Proposals
- Debate Discussion
- Feedback
- Article submissions
- About TPF
- Help
More Discussions
- Other sites we like
- Social media
- Terms of Service
- Sign In
- Created with PlushForums
- © 2024 The Philosophy Forum