The grounding point is that sensing another body provides the potential for sexual arousal. We can do things to that body, like put clothes on it, to either raise or lower the level of potential, but we cannot remove that potential in any absolute way. — Metaphysician Undercover
Thus far I agree, but in general, the way we 'put clothes on' the body or rather socialise a dress code with legal sanctions, does as a matter of fact serve to raise the level of potential arousal. — unenlightened
If we look at the sense of touch, instead of the sense of sight, the possible negative effects of clothing on arousal are very evident. Consider Hanover\s example of squeezing into the shower, skin on skin, as compared to squeezing into an elevator, cloths on cloths. It's very evident that cloths can have a very negative effect on the sensual stimulus which provides the potential for arousal. — Metaphysician Undercover
The studies show a low rate of transitioning regret at less than 1%. — Hanover
That is true also, but irrelevant to the effect of the taboo. On the contrary, the effect of a norm of nakedness would be to make overcrowding unacceptable for just those reasons you suggest, unless close contact was also desexualised as occurs to a great extent in 'touchy-feely' communities. — unenlightened
"Taboo" I'd submit is the dysphemism for "community standard." — Hanover
Fer fuck's sake! Has no one on this site read any sociology or anthropology? — unenlightened
Has no one on this site read any sociology or anthropology? — unenlightened
That is true also, but irrelevant to the effect of the taboo. — unenlightened
You've identified that public nakedness is taboo and argued it is without justification. — Hanover
Beyond that, I pointed to another taboo, which is that we don't have sex openly in public, — Hanover
That is, we needn't place all these taboos on the agenda to consider them for change and dramatically restructure our social norms just because we now face challenges from a very small minority as to what a man or woman is. — Hanover
Oh yes, it signifies that we have to change all our taboos if we even question one of them, and I am advocating that. — unenlightened
Mine is a reductio argument, not a strawman, asking why change one and not the other unless you can show how in principle they're not the same. — Hanover
And of course the evidence of the Naturist movement is that it is perfectly possible to dispense with the taboo on nudity without dispensing with the taboo on public sex. — unenlightened
What is wrong with the taboo against public nudity? Why must it hinge upon proof that it violates the taboo against public sex is my question? — Hanover
Why make some taboos taboo? — Hanover
Indeed I have already cited evidence from the Naturist movement that breaking the nudity taboo does desexualise nakedness and does not in the least lead to public sex.[...] One disadvantage of this is that it leads to body shame or modesty you prefer, — unenlightened
Quite possible though people originally started wearing clothes for other reasons, e. g. warmth, protection etc. and this, following Un's logic, is what sexualised nudity and brought the taboo into being. — Baden
- clothes simply enable people to be disgusting. — Merkwurdichliebe
You may think that, but I think that clothes enable the disgust. — unenlightened
If you go to life drawing class, you will see naked men and women of all kinds, fat and thin, hairy and smooth, young and old, light and dark, whole and deformed or scarred or mutilated. All just something to sketch or paint. — unenlightened
Disgust is a limitation to be overcome. One may not like blue cheese, but to be disgusted by it is never to find out. — unenlightened
Then we agree, I think. Clothes enable the disgust by creating a taboo around nudity. And, this is counter-effective in desensitizating people to the regular sight of a disgusting naked body. I would argue that such desensitization towards such a shameful thing as a disgusting fatbody is neither good nor healthy for society. — Merkwurdichliebe
Afterall some things, like poop, or disgusting fatbodies, have much further reaching ramifications in society than blue cheese. — Merkwurdichliebe
Do fatbodies have societal-wide ramifications? — Moliere
What does your disgust of fatbodies do for you? — Moliere
Shaming people for the body they have is not only unkind, it's unnecessary. — Moliere
I'm not disgusted by all fatbodies, forgive me for speaking so generally. But, for the ones that do disgust me, it gives me something interesting to draw. — Merkwurdichliebe
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