:up:The profound underlying difficulty is, however, that we're not actually outside of, or separate to, reality, as such - an awareness which is found throughout phenomenology and existentialism... — Wayfarer
:up:Scientists seek truth, while philosophers argue the definition of truth. Interesting interplay. — jgill
We aren't outside of it, and it isn't in us. Co-given, entangled. — plaque flag
I'm open to being convinced there's another approach available, but I'll tell you what's not going to work for me, that it just comes down to choosing sides. — Srap Tasmaner
In some ways, proper science is an escape from the treacherous mud of the most radical thinking (which turns like a snake to bite itself constantly.) — plaque flag
And would you agree that this insight is more typical of phenomenology and existentialism than Anglo philosophy? — Wayfarer
You're no doubt aware that the Hegelian (and generally German) approach to science is radically different from modern scientific method — Wayfarer
there are people like Sellars and Brandom and Braver, to name just a few. — plaque flag
It is beginning to change with systems theory, embodied cognition, phenomenology, and so on, but that implicit exclusion of the subject is still influential in science and culture. — Wayfarer
This sense of the division of self-and-other, the Galilean division of primary and secondary attributes, the Cartesian division of mind and matter - these are huge influences in today's culture and commentary on them is voluminous. It is not bad history, it's simply history. — Wayfarer
Fair enough, although I think it's fair to say that the bulk of their work is directed principally or solely to their academic peer group. I don't know if much of it will filter through to popular culture. — Wayfarer
I've never not been working in a mixed environment where science and philosophy are complementary rather than antagonistic. I just don't recognise this culture wars divide at the coalface of ideas. — apokrisis
Pop culture is IMO way too visceral-mythic for any 'serious' intellectualizing. — plaque flag
Indeed. I've tended to favor the Germans because they try to account for existence as a whole. — plaque flag
a lot of what you write in response to my posts is not to me, but about me — Wayfarer
I acknowledge that my general stance is contrarian with regards to philosophy as it is nowadays understood and taught — Wayfarer
It's just hard to engage with you because every argument you present quickly morphs into all of your arguments. We start out changing an oil filter and end up taking apart the whole car. — Srap Tasmaner
Fair enough, but I have observed in your case that your approach to philosophy has been that it provides alternatives to Cartesian for the purpose of modelling and understanding organic life, rather than for its own sake. I mean, your over-arching model of the primacy of the second law of thermodynamics basically reduces life to an efficiency measure, don't it? — Wayfarer
The cosy "history of ideas" view on this would be that the Brits/Dutch were unified populations, secure in their community and seeking to express their individuality — apokrisis
I agree with all of that, but would like an approach that doesn't require switching hats. Maybe that's a mistake, and being self-consciously multidisciplinary is the best way to get what I want. — Srap Tasmaner
You don't make any point by trivialising the argument. The issues at stake are considerably more subtle, and more significant — Wayfarer
It's just hard to engage with you because every argument you present quickly morphs into all of your arguments. We start out changing an oil filter and end up taking apart the whole car.
— Srap Tasmaner
Fair point, I'll take that on board. — Wayfarer
It's insulting. — Isaac
the above quoted exchange would be hard to understand without the context of the thread. — unenlightened
I really don't enjoy antagonistic exchanges. — Wayfarer
Do you seriously think telling an entire swathe of serious-minded people... — Isaac
I don't see any big mystery. — T Clark
Well, philosophers do say that 'wisdom begins in wonder'. — Wayfarer
Would it? — Isaac
In the context of the thread history, you are giving an example of something you think would be meaningful without the historical context. In context your meaning is clear, but out of context It would be bizarre. — unenlightened
By all means disagree — Isaac
Thank you. — unenlightened
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