Any thoughts? — Jack Cummins
But the creation story and all of Genesis up to Joseph's sojourn in Egypt, is suffused by the mythology of the region.The origins of Judaism date back more than 3500 years. This religion is rooted
in the ancient near eastern region of Canaan (which today constitutes Israel
and the Palestinian territories). Judaism emerged from the beliefs and practices
of the people known as “Israel”
The Gnostic gospels, as discovered in Nag Hammadi, are important, as was the philosophy of Gnosticism. The Gnostics took more of a symbolic interpretation of ideas in scriptures. — Jack Cummins
So, in this context, I am raising the philosophy questions of how was Chrisianity was constructed, and may it be deconstructed? If the emphasis on the supernatural is demystified, how does the traditional stand as a philosophy and foundation for ethics? It may be connected to a belief in God and life after death, but these are components and how do they come together? — Jack Cummins
So, in this thread I am interested in exploring and considering this in relation to the understanding of the Christian story. How was Christianity constructed and how may it be deconstructed, especially in relation to the quest of philosophy. — Jack Cummins
:chin:Any thoughts? — Jack Cummins
The construction crew began work decades after Jesus. At the moment I can't cite a number. — BC
I am more into thinking more about ideas of Christianity outside the mainstream and that which is not included in the Bible.
The construction crew began work decades after Jesus. At the moment I can't cite a number.
— BC
To be precise, it began three centuries after Jesus, in the exact year of 325 CE. This is the year of The First Council of Nicaea, where the doctrine of the Trinity was compromised between and constructed by different factions into its initial manifestation - this with the oversight of the Roman Emperor Constantine. — javra
We believe in one God,
the Father, the Almighty,
maker of heaven and earth
Gay people often have a hard time in Catholicism in particular, as well as the topics of abortion and even contraception. — Jack Cummins
"Oh, Master, make me chaste and celibate - but not yet!"
I am not saying that I swing to a 'hardcore' idealism, but have a general leaning towards the nature of 'symbolic truths'. From my current reading, I see the history of Christian ideas being partly related to historical gender wars, and other political issues, especially in the way Christianity wiped out paganism. Of course, a literal paganism may be problematic as well, as opposed to a more symbolic approach, such as the way most writers on shamanism juxtapose imagination and the symbolic understanding of 'otherworlds'. — Jack Cummins
Here, I have to admit some underlying sympathy with idealism, but balanced against mythical narratives. — Jack Cummins
Thanks - good information. — BC
No I get it. You are trying to say that it is an odd "proof" to say that God wants us to use our free will to know him so that we can fulfill his plan in light of other Biblical characters such as Jonah, etc. who "knew" he existed but didn't follow him.
Just stepping back a bit. I'll be the "devil's advocate" for a minute (no pun intended).
In ancient Jewish/Israelite religion God seems very transactional. He won't wipe your city out if you do as he says and worship him alone. He will allow you and your nation to be prosperous if you follow his commandments properly. He won't blot you out of existence when you die (return/resurrect in the World to Come) if you only do the proscribed commandments with fidelity.
This was basically how most ancient gods of the Bronze and Iron Age worked. You do the right rituals and procedures, and the god rewards you. Israelite religion had its own interesting spin and story with Moses, though as with all ancient stories, had pastiche from nearby civilizations (Egypt and Babylon) though not to deny that there were unique "Israelite" qualities to their historical narrative of their nation's founding.
However, as Judaism came into contact with Greco-Roman demands for proper reasoning behind various worship, religion became a lot more complicated. It wasn't enough to just have the tradition, but it was important to understand "deeper implications". So the reason you followed Mosaic Law was because not only is transactional but because it allows the participant to be closer to the godhead. That is to say, each practitioner is playing their part in the divine plan by following the commandments of Mosaic Law. So, using your free will to follow commandments became necessary to curry the fulfillment of God's divine plan. With the ancient lineage of kings being a very remote possibility as time went forward, the idea was not only to restore Israel to its rightful kingship under a Davidic king again (the Messiah), but that God was going to fulfill his ultimate vision. History would get to a point where God would dwell on earth similar to as in heaven. And because these are humans making up the stories, there will be a time when those who followed the Mosaic Laws get to resurrect and dwell in the World to Come and live in God's open presence and not just hidden anymore.
Now of course, why this whole scheme is made up in the first place, seems a bit odd. But I guess those who truly believe in it, don't question the reason other than this is what God wants. He has a plan, and he's carrying it out. The plan itself is not questioned.
So with Christianity, you have the character of Paul in his epistles that does question this plan. See, Paul had a new idea, that was probably influenced by Platonic and general Greco-Roman philosophy around the idea of a demiurge (which is really the foundation of Gnosticism/gnostic ideas). The demiurge is a creator of some sort, but he is a sort of evil one that creates the world in a way that is flawed because the deity himself is capricious and flawed in some way. However, there is the Universal One or the God of Light who is above and beyond all creation that is the real deal God. And he is all Good. But you see this Good God, would then have to be inept or indifferent!
So whereas in the Judaic conception you have a God where the flaws are substantiated in the deity (this is just his plan, and he is carrying it out.. who cares if the plan itself involves suffering.. we just don't question it. He likes things like punishment and rewards .. and we are just his participants in that).. In the Pauline (Christian) idea, God is like the gnostic version of The Good who is never "flawed" (never causes or wants suffering), but you see the demiurge (the LAW in Paul is now a standin for the demiurge) is keeping the people down and so the death/resurrection of some dying god (Jesus who is just rehashed mystery cults that Paul seems to integrate into Judaic thought) becomes the way that atones. The Law was a sort of false start and the real law is from The Good who provides you the real deal compassion (except somehow later on, the idea of Hell being eternal and for those who don't believe in Jesus makes it even more transactional than before, but let's not look at the plotholes for now).
So Pauline Christianity (most of mainstream Christianity) is based on gnostic notions of a true god beyond the demiurgic/lower god of the physical suffering world. So the god of the "Old Testament" while the same god, is really preparing for his compassionate path to salvation. So for whatever reason, he created this world so he can save us from this world.. Which makes absolutely no sense. At least in the original Jewish version, it was simply "the plan man". In the Pauline version the plan becomes about saving people from his plan. Which is so very odd.
Either way, my point is why is this the plan though? Why are we all playing this out in some game of "did you do the thing the way you were supposed to?" It seems like a very human kind of thing to want to see play out. But I guess we are made in his image... he he likes to see people punished and rewarded? And if it's about relationship, he's going to be pissed off if you don't want to hang out with him in the way he wants? It's all very oddly childish to me. It's like god is portrayed as a baby who isn't happy when his toys aren't doing the things he planned for them. How oddly weird for a supreme being to be playing "gotcha!". — schopenhauer1
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