More fake indictments. What's next, more fake court proceedings? Then more fake legal expenses for Trump?

I wish you fucking foreigners would leave the US politics to we Americans. — T Clark

Don't be so selfish Clarky. Learn to share.

There are also 6 co-conspirators involved:

leave the US politics to we Americans — T Clark

Nattering nabob of nitpicking grammarians here... The sons of bitches should leave the US politics to us Americans. "Us" is the object of the preposition "to". "We Americans never interfere in other counties' affairs" (cough, cough). We Americans is the subject of the sentence.

I have two American grand-children. And I do have expectations that America is better than what Trump wanted to make it.

The sons of bitches should leave the US politics to us Americans. "Us" is the object of the preposition "to". — BC

Interesting.

Thanks BC. I learned a new lesson on English grammar this morning, while I am taking my breakfast. :up:

I wish you Americans would stop making unreasonable demands of the rest of the world and then act surprised we take issue with it and have a commensurate enjoyment when you idiots elect idiots and still like to play at being "leader of the free world" causing more trouble than China and Russia combined.

Don't sugar coat it Benkei, let us know how you really feel.:smile:

That was it. I just think it's funny someone would demand people not discuss US politics in a... checks notes... thread about Trump. I saw a parallel and pounced on it like a kitten.

why can't the pronoun 'we' be the object of a preposition?

Don't be so selfish Clarky. Learn to share. — Changeling

It just seems to me feriners could find something closer to home to be obsessed with, like the endangered Tasmanian devil or the price of bilibongs.

Nattering nabob of nitpicking grammarians here — BC

I asked myself that question while I was writing the post. I think you're wrong. "We" is not the object of the prepositions, "Americans" is.

I have two American grand-children. And I do have expectations that America is better than what Trump wanted to make it. — Quixodian

And I have three Scottish nieces. I'm interested in politics in the UK and I pay attention a bit, but it's not an obsession. You guys seem to care more about US politics than I do, and I'm actually responsible for it.

Anyway, I don't expect you guys to change. I was just venting and rabble-rousing. You and your cohort being the rabble I was trying to rouse.

More fake word crimes levied from a political DOJ towards the regime’s biggest opponent. What’s new? — NOS4A2

What's the basis of your judgement that the DOJ indictments are "fake"?

On a related note, have you read the indictments?

I learned a new lesson on English grammar this morning, — javi2541997

Note my correction of @BC.

why can't the pronoun 'we' be the object of a preposition? — Changeling

You use subjective pronouns, e.g. "we", as the subject of a verb. You use objective pronouns, e.g. "us," as the object of a verb or in a prepositional phrase. As I noted, "we" in my usage is not the object of the preposition. I looked on the web and got different answers, but I think I remember Stephen Pinker saying that either word would be appropriate in this particular usage.

I wish you Americans would stop making unreasonable demands of the rest of the world and then act surprised we take issue — Benkei

I have no problem with non-Americans finding fault with American policies and international actions, but it makes you look like a bunch of chooches when you obsess about the intricacies of our internal politics. You should just worry about the fluffernutters or whoever it is that rules the Netherlands. And what kind of a name is that for a country, anyway?

Actually... I've been to Europe twice, and both times the Netherlands were my favorite place. I think that's at least partly because I'm an engineer and it's a country of engineers.

someone would demand people not discuss US politics — Benkei

If you'll check my post, you'll see I didn't demand anything. And I have no issue with non-Americans taking an interest in our politics. It's the obsession that is so unbecoming.

More fake word crimes — NOS4A2

What does this mean? That he didn’t commit the crimes he’s been indicted for or that the criminal statutes cited in the indictment don’t exist?

Note my correction of BC. — T Clark

I see. You consider “Americans” as the object of the preposition. This is more interesting for me than Trump himself, and I want to know what @BC thinks about your answer, but I do not want to get off topic and I am aware that this is not the correct thread to discuss these things.

Hey Clarky, thanks for teaching me lessons on English grammar. I appreciate it.

You should just worry about the fluffernutters or whoever it is that rules the Netherlands. And what kind of a name is that for a country, anyway? — T Clark

On behalf of Spain and Charles V, I am sorry @Benkei for this.

You should just worry about the fluffernutters or whoever it is that rules the Netherlands. And what kind of a name is that for a country, anyway? — T Clark

That's King Flutternutter to you.

I am aware that this is not the correct thread to discuss these things — javi2541997

The Ancient Order of English Majors endorses grammar discussions in any thread on any topic. One must exploit the teachable moment.

I asked myself that question while I was writing the post. I think you're wrong. "We" is not the object of the prepositions, "Americans" is. — T Clark

I wondered about that as well. I agree that you are correct in claiming "Americans" as the object of the preposition "to"; but unavoidably, so is the attached pronoun.

Let us examine the sentence

"I wish you fucking foreigners would leave the US politics to we Americans."

"I" is the subject of the sentence, "wish" is the verb. The dependent clause "you fucking foreigners would leave the US politics to we Americans" is the object of the verb "wish". "Americans" is an object of a preposition, but so is the pronoun you used with "Americans". The pronouns "we" or "us" emphasizes that the speaker is part of the collective noun "Americans" and not a third party,

That's King Flutternutter to you. — frank

Thank you for the clarification.

"I" is the subject of the sentence, "wish" is the verb. The dependent clause "you fucking foreigners would leave the US politics to we Americans" is the object of the verb "wish". "Americans" is an object of a preposition, but so is the pronoun you used with "Americans". The pronouns "we" or "us" emphasizes that the speaker is part of the collective noun "Americans" and not a third party, — BC

I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say whatever kind of crazy-ass thing you want.

The Ancient Order of English Majors endorses grammar discussions in any thread on any topic. One must exploit the teachable moment. — BC

I will keep in mind this principle and try to improve my grammar skills!

They knowingly made false accusations that Trump knowingly made false claims.

I was just venting — T Clark

More or less what I do in this thread. Plus expressing a sense of exasperation and bafflement.

They knowingly made false accusations that Trump knowingly made false claims. — NOS4A2

Actually this is almost correct - at least from Trump's perspective. Of course things can and will likely change as events take place, but for the moment it looks like Trump's defense is going to be that he "unknowingly made false statements" - i.e. that he was given bad advice. In other words he will put the blame on his advisors. Hence the unindicted co-conspirators.

But you don't have to take my word for this: https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/pence-trump-indictment/story?id=101953368

They knowingly made false accusations that Trump knowingly made false claims. — NOS4A2

There's no basis for claiming Smith "knowingly made a false allegation. You obviously didn't read the indictment. Here's a bit of the evidence Smith presents:

A number of sources told Trump there had been no outcome determinative fraud:

-His campaign hired the Berkely Group Simpatico Software Systems to investigate, and both concluded there was no widespread fraud.
-Bill Barr told him there was no fraud (subsequently, Barr resigned)
-Chris Krebs, head of the Cybersecurity and Infrastructure Security Agency (CISA) told him there was no fraud. Trump fired him.
-White House Counsel advised him there was no fraud.
-Various State Officials told him there was no fraud in their states (e.g. Rusty Bowers in Arizona, Raffensberger in Georgia, Michigan Senate Majority Leader Mike Shirkey).
-Mark Meadows told Trump he’d observed the efforts of Georgia officials were “conducting themselves in an exemplary fashion”…who would find fraud if it existed. Within hours, Trump tweeted that the election officials were “terrible people” who were trying to cover-up evidence of fraud. Another lie to support his false narrative. (As Jack Smith says, lying is not a crime, per se. But perpetuating a fraud by lying IS a crime).

-Deputy AG Richard Donoghue and acting AG Jeffrey Rosen refuted every allegation Trump asked them about. Despite their clearly stated position, Trump asked them to to lie (weaponizing the DOJ): “say the election was corrupt and leave the rest to me and the Republican Congress”. Trump tried to replace Rosen with a co-conspirator who WOULD support his false claim, but backed down over threats of widespread resignations.

In his famously recorded call to Georgia officials on Jan 2, Trump brought up a variety of fraud allegations (e.g. the State Farm Arena claim about suitcases of ballots appearing from nowhere, out of state voters, dead voters, destruction of ballots). The Georgia Secretary of State explained that each of them had been thoroughly investigated and the claims were false. Regarding the State Farm Arena allegation, the Secretary offered to send Trump a full video showing the alleged suitcases of ballots were innocent. Trump declined, and the very next day, he issued a statement falsely stating the Georgia Secretary of State had not addressed his allegations, and that the Secretary of State had been unwilling or unable to answer questions such as “the ‘ballots under the table’, ballot destruction, out of state voters, dead voters and more”. Trump lied about what had been said, and clearly was not interested in examining the refutation of the “ballots under the table” claim.

In a meeting on Jan 5, Pence told Trump he did not have the power to obstruct the election certification. That evening, Trump released the false statement “The Vice President and I are in total agreement that the Vice President has the power to act.

So the evidence shows Trump told multiple self-serving lies, disregarded evidence, attempted to weaponize the DOJ by trying to get the AG and Deputy AG to lie. This demonstrates a corrupt state of mind and a blatant disregard for the truth. There’s also 2 bits of direct evidence Trump knew he lost:

1. In a Jan 3 meeting with General Milley, Trump said, "it's too late for us" and "we're going to give that to the next guy."
2. While watching Biden on TV in mid-November, Trump said to White House Aide Alyssa Farah, “can you believe I lost to this effing guy”?

All this adds up to evidence Trump knew he lost, so you’re absolutely wrong to claim the Special Counsel lied about this. Of course, you could deny this evidence proves his knowledge beyond a reasonable doubt. But what’s the explanation for dismissing the analyses of so many, in favor of people like Sydney Powell (who Trump referred to as “sounding crazy”)? Any defense he might use cannot reflect positively on him.
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There's zero purpose trying to reason with Trump supporters.

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