Or simply the payment for the services they provide is called taxes.
You are intentionally dropping crucial things here that the sociologist Max Weber pointed out.
In his definition of a state, it is a "human community that (successfully) claims the monopoly of the legitimate use of physical force within a given territory". Legitimacy comes from the acceptance of the people, and behind a state is a human community. Not some others like zombies who make up the government, who somehow aren't part of the people.
Yet perhaps for an individualist liberal, it's hard to fathom people functioning as a community, but it does happen.
but here government employees are taxed just like any other private employee. So a tax dollar might find itself in the wage of one over-payed government worker, but then that money is taxed again and goes right back into government coffers. If it was you or me doing that it would be skimming, but when the government does it it is just how we pay for services. This is why the government not only has the monopoly on violence, but also the monopoly on crime. — NOS4A2
Lol. Obviously coming from an American. Well, in smaller expandable countries where the people have to have fought just to survive as a people, the feeling towards one own nation is a bit different, should I say that. That doesn't mean our politicians cannot be bad and incompetent and the government can suck big time.The only human community behind the state is its administrative staff. — NOS4A2
It's hard to fathom how far Americans have fallen from the ideals of their state. Perhaps it's spoon fed in the media, by your politicians, by Hollywood that the first and foremost enemy and threat to the citizen is the state. No really, I believe you. I went with my family to Capitol Hill (in the Trump years) and hearing with my own ears how a Republican member of the House speaking during a Session what a danger the FBI constitutes to the US and Americans made me see just how deep the utter mistrust and hatred for the state Americans have. So it isn't any surprise that you think the way you do.It's hard to fathom how one can be so loose with the term "community", that it would contain both the ruling class and its subjects, as if they shared a common interest. But that's collectivism for you. — NOS4A2
Ok, Why don't you first read what was my point.It's no doubt that you find the state's authority and legitimacy sacrosanct, but conflating the will of the state with the will of the people is mistake. The only human community behind the state is its administrative staff. — NOS4A2
Lol. Obviously coming from an American. Well, in smaller expandable countries the feeling is a bit different, should I say that.
It's hard to fathom how far Americans have fallen from the ideals of their state. Perhaps it's spoon fed in the media, by your politicians, by Hollywood that the first and foremost enemy and threat to the citizen is the state. No really, I believe you. I went with my family to Capitol Hill (in the Trump years) and hearing with my own ears how a Republican member of the House speaking during a Session what a danger the FBI constitutes to the US and Americans made me see just how deep the utter mistrust and hatred for the state Americans have. So it isn't any surprise that you think the way you do.
Ok, Why don't you first read what was my point?
The point was this: Communities and families that people belong to matter to people and their actions and work inside this group aren't the same when buying or selling something. Everything isn't materialistic and connected to money. And since the security starting from our own families is extremely important, so does our attitudes toward security in general are different.
The fact is that if the state's authority collapses, the police doesn't work, then communities organize themselves the similar function. This happens quite universally.
But recipients of welfare or employment insurance are taxed on what they receive from the government as if it was a wage and as if it wasn't already tax revenue. — NOS4A2
I don't work for the government and am not an official. Yet as a reservist I have voluntarily trained other reservists, so that's I guess the closest I come to working with the authorities. It's been quite popular now especially after last year. And when your government in these voluntary exercises train reservists how to detonate a VBIED by a text message (as how in the Big World it is done), you know there is trust between the government (the armed forces) and it's reservists.What's your role in your government? — NOS4A2
That is a very interesting point of view.American institutions in particular do not have the greatest track record, to be fair. But it's true; the mistrust is present even in the founding documents and much of the subsequent literature. The mistake was to organize these founding principles on roman and republican ideals of statehood, in my opinion. These ideals are as statist and collectivist as they come. — NOS4A2
Those that seek power are a minority, I agree. But those who take part in a voluntary street patrol or militia are usually those that do other community work and are respected in the community. Of course there are criminals too who obviously see an opening in a protection racket, but well, they are part of their own community.In other words, only a part of a community, a ruling class, seeks power over others and organize themselves in a similar function. In other words, it's not as universal as we like to say it is. — NOS4A2
I don't work for the government and am not an official. Yet as a reservist I have voluntarily trained other reservists, so that's I guess the closest I come to working with the authorities. It's been quite popular now especially after last year. And when your government in these voluntary exercises train reservists how to detonate a VBIED by a text message (as how in the Big World it is done), you know there is trust between the government (the armed forces) and it's reservists.
That is a very interesting point of view.
Care to elaborate what's the mistake with Roman and Republican ideals. I thought the "Republican" part of the US system avoided the democracy becoming something like in the French Revolution.
Lol. If there wouldn't have been conscription in this country, I would never, ever have gone to the military voluntarily. Not because of opposing the service, but because I had so low self esteem that I considered to be totally unfit for military service. I thought it would be living hell (as I wasn't at all good in sports in school), and really didn't think I'd find myself as a reserve officer.I've heard the stories of White Death and now I view you in a different light. — NOS4A2
I totally agree with this.I would argue that it is republicanism rather than liberalism that is the dominant political and state ideology throughout the world. — NOS4A2
Many would have an opposite view. Liberalism, the classic liberalism, is a political movement that was very successful especially in the 19th Century, but had started in earnest in the 18th Century. It was so successful that the movement basically waned after achieving it's main objectives. It's like feminism after women getting the vote and have equal rights to wealth: after the most important issues are fulfilled come "new waves".I would argue that it is republicanism rather than liberalism that is the dominant political and state ideology throughout the world. I would even argue that liberalism has never gained any foothold anywhere in the world, as far as I can tell. — NOS4A2
Can't wait to hear proposals on how government services should be paid for. — LuckyR
Hence saying that liberalism hasn't ever gained any foothold anywhere in the world sounds like the often heard argument here that "Marxism has never been TRULY attempted in the world".
The simple fact is that democracy is the cause of this, and I would say rightly so. (There are naturally other reasons, but this is a structural reason for this in the West)Either way, wherever one looks there has been no liberty, no laissez-faire, and no individualism anywhere in the world. No one can point to a liberal place or liberal time period because the closer one looks there lies the law, regulation, military, and the statism present in all other ideologies. — NOS4A2
Marxism yes, liberalism, ummm... now just what to you is liberalism? I think you are simply disillusioned or disenchanted about the current state of the Republic (of the US). Yeah, who don't be? Or then you feel better the more ultra-liberalist you think you are. More refreshing?At any rate, I don’t think anything like liberalism or Marxism can exist on Republican terms. — NOS4A2
Well, one does buy insurances for various issues and hope one isn't going to need the services.Do you pay for the Fire Department's equipment before or after your house catches fire? — LuckyR
How much have you payed for the Department of defense and have you gotten your money’s worth? I wager you have no clue what you’re paying for or where your money goes, whether to the fire department or into right into a politician’s pocket.
Yeah the 'ol won't/can't answer questions, so throw out random ones of your own. I have to admit I used to do stuff like that a long time ago.
As to your queries: I don't know and I (pretty much) don't care or worry about it. I have received a huge amount from my tax dollar, even though I am paying more total taxes than the vast majority.
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