The recent publication of a cutting-edge physics experiment revealed that entangled photons returned a holographic image that looks identical to the Yin/Yang symbol of Taoism and Holism. The article was quickly reproduced in other publications, but I was surprised that no one expressed surprise at the irony that a state-of-the-art Western scientific photographic technique produced an image traditionally used to symbolically portray the holistic philosophical worldview of an ancient Eastern philosophy. — Gnomon
Counterpoint: Jesus with a halo praying carved into the universe with a nebula. — Count Timothy von Icarus
Somebody else take a look and see if they think I'm right. — T Clark
Is it your understanding that the scientists took a picture of a cultural symbol, and published it as-if it's a picture of two photons orbiting each other?*4 If so, was it a joke on gullible New Agers?*5 Or were they deliberately trying to deceive us ignorant Philosophers? Either way, it's unprofessional behavior. Please post a quote from your source that says "The input to the experiment was the image of the yin/yang symbol", so we can "take a look".After slogging through the original paper (link - https://www.nature.com/articles/s41566-023-01272-3#Fig2) I think I've sort of figured it out. Not certain. If I'm right, you've misunderstood what's really going on. The input to the experiment was the image of the yin/yang symbol. It was disrupted and then recreated using the new holographic/entangled photon technique. Somebody else take a look and see if they think I'm right. — T Clark
Is it your understanding that the scientists took a picture of a cultural symbol, and published it as-if it's a picture of two photons orbiting each other?*4 If so, was it a joke on gullible New Agers?*5 Or were they deliberately trying to deceive us ignorant Philosophers? — Gnomon
The image used in the experiment is arbitrary, they could have used Mickey Mouse or any other image. I think a Lambda symbol was used in a prior version of the experiment. — punos
The articles I've seen don't mention that they started with a yin/yang symbol as input. — Gnomon
They made a bad choice in using the taichi because gullible new-agers could so easily jump to the incorrect conclusion without understanding the substance of the experiment. — T Clark
Quantum physics seems ripe for certain kinds of thinkers to abuse. It takes a lot of effort to undo that abuse . — flannel jesus
I certainly don't understand why an attempt to create an image of a "physical" object would require the inclusion of a completely unrelated image. Which part of the published picture are we supposed to identify with the entangled wavefunctions? Even if the swirling dots are supposed to be entwined photons, what scientific meaning are we supposed to learn from the image? An artist could have done the same with much less technological tomfoolery. Were the scientists themselves "gullible new-agers" trying to send a message to blind black-&-whiters?No, you've completely misunderstood. As punos noted:
They made a bad choice in using the taiji because gullible new-agers could so easily jump to the incorrect conclusion without understanding the substance of the experiment. — T Clark
Yes, I'm familiar with Capra's seminal work. But, I doubt that even he, as a physicist, would imagine that entangled photons would graphically resemble an ancient symbol of harmony & balance. :smile:Gnomon, Fritjof Capra has talked about this subject extensively since 1975 in his famous book "The Tao of Physics: An Exploration of the Parallels Between Modern Physics and Eastern Mysticism" — Alkis Piskas
I certainly don't understand why an attempt to create an image of a "physical" object would require the inclusion of a completely unrelated image. Which part of the published picture are we supposed to identify with the entangled wavefunctions? Even if the swirling dots are supposed to be entwined photons, what scientific meaning are we supposed to learn from the image? An artist could have done the same with much less technological tomfoolery. Were the scientists themselves "gullible new-agers" trying to send a message to blind black-&-whiters? — Gnomon
I certainly doubt about that too. As, I believe, most physicists too some years ago. This is a visualization experiment has been produced only "four years after the capture of the first photo of quantum entanglement by physicists at the University of Glasgow in Scotland." (https://www.scmp.com/news/china/science/article/3232205/quantum-mechanics-yin-and-yang-photon-entanglementI doubt that even he, as a physicist, would imagine that entangled photons would graphically resemble an ancient symbol of harmony & balance. — Gnomon
Nice! :up:“Physicists do not need mysticism,” Dr. Capra says, “and mystics do not need physics, but humanity needs both.” — Gnomon
Maybe, maybe not. The 4mm may be measuring the object under scrutiny, or the photographic image produced by the equipment. Some labels would help.Here's a figure from the article from which you've clipped your yin/yang symbol. It shows the black and white input image and the colored output. Note the size, measured as 4mm, or about 1/4 inch. This does not show entangled photons, it shows the recreation of an image. — T Clark
Yes. I had imagined quantum entanglement as random noise, and the dis-entangled particle as a recognizable image. It never occurred to me that a tangle of photons would look like a Taoist symbol. :smile:Yet, this is not the point. We are talking about just a visualization. Nothing more. — Alkis Piskas
Since you are reading-into the "4mm", a prejudiced meaning which is not expressed in the image, who should be ashamed? If you can produce evidence to support your "reading", I will retract my attribution of "prejudice". :smile:Maybe, maybe not. The 4mm may be measuring the object under scrutiny, or the photographic image produced by the equipment. Some labels would help. — Gnomon
No sense going on any further. You should be ashamed of yourself. — T Clark
Interesting idea!I had imagined quantum entanglement as random noise, and the dis-entangled particle as a recognizable image. It never occurred to me that a tangle of photons would look like a Taoist symbol. :smile: — Gnomon
Can you reproduce that? :smile: (Re-create it, not copy it)OBJECT EMERGING FROM NOISY BACKGROUND — Gnomon
didn't respond to my request for the source of his information/opinion about the intentional use of the YY symbol as input instead of as output of the holographic method. Will you post where & how you determined that is the case? Did you interpret the symbolic image as an error of judgment, or a deliberate hoax?The input to the experiment was the image of the yin/yang symbol — T Clark
Seems to be the case as far as I can determine. Difficult reading. — jgill
The image isn't the entangled photons. It's an image of a mathematical entity: the wave function. — jgill
No. — T Clark
Researchers at the University of Ottawa, in collaboration with Danilo Zia and Fabio Sciarrino from the Sapienza University of Rome, recently demonstrated a novel technique that allows the visualization of the wave function of two entangled photons
↪T Clark didn't respond to my request for the source of his information/opinion about the intentional use of the YY symbol as input instead of as output of the holographic method. Will you post where & how you determined that is the case? Did you interpret the symbolic image as an error of judgment, or a deliberate hoax? — Gnomon
Here we introduce biphoton digital holography, in analogy to off-axis digital holography, where coincidence imaging of the superposition of an unknown state with a reference state is used to perform quantum state tomography.
Thanks for the reference. The technical stuff is beyond me too. But the references to three different "states" provides fodder for speculation. The "unknown state" must be the entangled photons, and the "quantum state" might be the mathematical wavefunction. But the "reference state" is a mystery.Frankly, I don't know what's going on here. But at the beginning of the paper
: Here we introduce biphoton digital holography, in analogy to off-axis digital holography, where coincidence imaging of the superposition of an unknown state with a reference state is used to perform quantum state tomography.
This stuff is way beyond me. — jgill
My question was not a dichotomy. Merely an incomplete list of unknown possibilities. Maybe they are Alien beings trying to sow discord among PF posters . . . :smile:Did you interpret the symbolic image as an error of judgment, or a deliberate hoax? — Gnomon
Isn't that a false dichotomy?
Maybe a stunt to get a lot of attention to their paper? Maybe one of the researchers is into Taoism? Maybe a target that was handy and interesting enough? — wonderer1
↪T Clark seemed to be certain that the researchers took a picture of a YinYang symbol and passed it off as a picture of entangled photons. Perhaps he saw "reference state" and inferred that it was the Taoist symbol. — Gnomon
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