• Skalidris
    134
    I’ve recently discovered this term “apolitical” and since political opinions are tied to values most of the time, I was wondering what an “apolitical” person without values would be like. It's obviously impossible for a human to completely lack values and political opinions, but what I mean is someone who would actively try to minimize/ignore them.

    For example, a mathematician could spend his life mostly devoted to his work and be as “pragmatic” as possible in his personal life. He could feel frustrated by a political decision because it's going to impact his life, but he could also honestly acknowledge to himself that he doesn't oppose that decision from a political standpoint. He wouldn’t label it as detrimental to society, or even to other mathematicians; he would only recognize that it's unfavorable for him.
    And when it comes to values, he wouldn't rely on them. He’d simply assess what's good for him in the short and long run and what isn't. Theoretically, he wouldn't judge people, would never say they are "bad." Instead, he might just say that those people don't quite fit into his life. His “life guidelines” would directly be his own feelings rather than his values. He'd be aware of what he enjoys and dislikes, and he’d make decisions based on a short and long-term evaluation to maximize what he enjoys. In other words, he’d never hold on to values like loyalty but would rather assess if being “loyal” in one particular situation is more beneficial or detrimental for him (and therefore indirectly for the ones he cares about).

    What I’m trying to find is someone who would try to dismiss their intuitions to replace it by conscious reasoning whenever it’s possible. Do you know any authors (or anyone) like that? Or do you have thoughts about the consequences this could have?
  • Leontiskos
    3.2k
    He could feel frustrated by a political decision because it's going to impact his life, but he could also honestly acknowledge to himself that he doesn't oppose that decision from a political standpoint. He wouldn’t label it as detrimental to society, or even to other mathematicians; he would only recognize that it's unfavorable for him.Skalidris

    Is he capable of recognizing political decisions that are unfavorable to others? And if he is capable of the (rational) judgment that a political decision is unfavorable to the vast majority of the society, would he not then oppose that political decision? Because politics is for the polis?
  • simplyG
    111
    Or do you have thoughts about the consequences this could have?Skalidris

    One of the penalties for refusing to participate in politics is that you end up being governed by your inferiors. — Plato

    That’s the consequence, as most of us live in democracies our interests are represented by the politicians we choose to elect and it’s important the wrong ones don’t get elected as they could end up affecting your life.
  • Tom Storm
    9.2k
    I’ve recently discovered this term “apolitical” and since political opinions are tied to values most of the time, I was wondering what an “apolitical” person without values would be like.Skalidris

    To me all apolitical means is someone who is not interested in politics. The fact that they hold values and beliefs is a separate matter. An apolitical person may be inclined to think that politics is not a vehicle where values can be successfully instantiated or fulfilled.
  • simplyG
    111


    Unless political values affect personal values of individuals - hence why democracy is the best model of government instead of tyranny.
  • Skalidris
    134
    Is he capable of recognizing political decisions that are unfavorable to others?Leontiskos

    We can't analyze a political opinion and be certain it is better or worse than another, politics is very subjective. And most people derive their political opinions from their own values.

    So maybe when the analysis of an opinion doesn't contain much uncertainties (for example: if we suddenly decide that killing humans isn't a crime anymore), when it's quite certain that this decision would lead to a lot of suffering (short and long term), he could have an opinion. But when it's more uncertain (hence most political opinions) and that people take sides because of their intuitions and values rather than conscious assessment, then he would choose not to have an opinion.

    it’s important the wrong ones don’t get elected as they could end up affecting your life.simplyG

    Where does this come from? I never said "what if everyone is like that?", I said, "what if someone is like that?". Or even: what if a group of people becomes like that?". Why should every single citizen be interested in politics? If someone only cares about maths, why force them to vote?

    A lot of things affect our lives and we can’t have a complete control over everything. Just because having a bad computer affects your life doesn’t mean you should learn how to build one. We have limited time in our lives, we can’t be interested in everything and do everything ourselves. That’s why we live in a society. So why should everyone care about politics?
  • simplyG
    111
    Where does this come from? I never said "what if everyone is like that?", I said, "what if someone is like that?". Or even: what if a group of people becomes like that?". Why should every single citizen be interested in politics? If someone only cares about maths, why force them to voteSkalidris

    Still the same applies because if ones values are not represented by the politicians in charge then electing them out by not voting for them is one step in doing so unless the person is ok with their values being replaced by the values of the politician which might contradict one’s own.

    Sure a lot of things affect our lives that are beyond our control but choosing our politicians is where we do have control in a democracy.
  • ssu
    8.7k
    To me all apolitical means is someone who is not interested in politics.Tom Storm
    A government official can be also apolitical meaning that he or she simply tries to avoid any politics and simply goes with what the current elected political leadership wants. Or as "Sir Humphrey" in the old UK Television series "Yes, minister" put it:


    How apolitical can government officials be is another matter. But the idea is there.
  • Gnomon
    3.8k
    I’ve recently discovered this term “apolitical” and since political opinions are tied to values most of the time, I was wondering what an “apolitical” person without values would be like. It's obviously impossible for a human to completely lack values and political opinions, but what I mean is someone who would actively try to minimize/ignore them.Skalidris
    One interpretation of "politics" is "polarized people" : Lords vs Commons, Republican vs Democrat, us vs them ; friends vs enemies ; Good vs Evil ; our people (NAZI volk) vs aliens (Jews, etc). That rational (non-emotional) assessment sums up why I am literally apolitical. It's not that I have no interest in the issues being argued, but simply that I'm not prepared to choose-up sides and fight for my values. My personal values are multivalent, and are found on both sides of most either/or, two-value party lines.

    For example, I can see both pro & con & non of Abortion : A> murder of innocent, or B> personal reproductive choice vs government mandate, or C> population control in an over-peopled world. Besides, in democratic politics, it's not always the majority that rules, but the most powerful minority. So, I stand on the sidelines, hopefully out of the line of fire, and watch the predators & prey engage in the eternal struggle for survival : as groups, they can't survive without each other. But I (alone) can survive here on my little apolitical philosophical perch on the un-peopled mountaintop. :smile:

    APOLITICAL PHILOSOPHER
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