• ucarr
    1.5k
    Psychedelia

    A universe in motion, like ours, contains no final answers or states.

    It contains, instead, evolving answers and states.

    Accordingly, psychedelia must be followed by post-psychedelia.

    Speaking structurally, psychedelia is the free-flowing, multi-channel interweave of
    discrete boundary lines en route to conceptual curvilinearity, thus shaving off the
    sharp-edged divisions and categories of classical analysis.

    Industrialized humanity, in psychedelic mode, makes a deep dive into existential
    curvilinearity.

    Our forebears, born into the existential curvilinearity of the jungle wilds of antiquity,
    evolving mentally, longed for the straight lines and discrete dimensions of rectilinearity, a product of analytical math. This longing is fueled by the breakthrough miracles of
    science, engineering and technology. Hence the cycle of transition from curvilinearity to
    rectilinearity was underway.

    Eventually, the calculus would reconcile analytical math with the curvilinearity of the
    natural world via approximation.

    The non-orthodox spiritualities inhabit the gap approximation inserts between the
    curvilinear and the rectilinear.

    The orthodox spiritualities make a close approach to the grayscale metrics of the gap,
    halting just short of diving deeply into the interweave of the irrational_rational_trans-rational. This refusal to embrace the blooming totality of creation, a fulgent reality that backgrounds power in favor of love, gets mandated by the state, which cannot exist without prioritizing power over love.

    The priority of power over love is the foundation of establishmentarianism. This priority
    gives rise to the state, a social entity buttressed in the modern world by the
    military-industrial complex. The power of the state, expressed in basic terms, is the
    power to build and then demolish infrastructure. Baked into this equation is the right of
    the state to kill, and thus the necessity of prioritizing power over love.

    Indoctrination of the fully-privileged citizens of the state, the upper-middle class and above, attains to success when it fixes in their minds by persistent instruction indispensable beliefs and values. The peak of success occurs when these individuals, freshly graduated from college and poised to enter the labor market, embark on the important work of society with beliefs and values so ingrained into their worldviews it never occurs to them to question or critically examine such values.

    Italian filmmaker Antonio Antonioni, in his feature, The Passenger, shows the execution of an African revolutionary by firing squad. On film the viewer watches the horrific and momentous transition from sentient man alive to lifeless body.

    How does the state effect indoctrination so total it empowers young citizens as trained soldiers and marksmen to shoot dead at close range a total stranger for whom they could feel no personal hostility?

    The need for total indoctrination impervious to critical thinking is the point of entry for the established Church. State power can enforce the license to kill, but a meta-narrative relating the ultimate destiny of a sovereign nation is required for putting the baby to bed.

    The basic game of war is the establishment of a sovereign territory. Once established,
    this sovereign territory proceeds forth into the world, programmed with a stern
    determination to annex foreign territories, converting them into satellites of the
    motherland.

    The gist of the conversion of foreign territories into satellites is the smashing of the
    native infrastructure followed by the militarily enforced demand that natives both assist
    and pay for its rebuilding under direction of the imperial power.

    As the imperial power ages and matures at the top of the power pyramid, its native
    population, in possession of the privileges of full citizenship, growing sated and bored
    with the prerogatives of power, starts rebelling by maneuvering away from the priority of
    power towards the priority of love.

    Because the sharp, discrete and linear categories of rectilinearity serve the social
    stratification interests of the power establishment, authentic rebellion naturally entails
    re-rendering the rigidly straight boundaries of the classes as curvy-groovy lines with
    much-increased permeability. The willful coming together of the formerly stratified
    classes is free love, organized by love-ins.

    Imitation James Joyce: “And then the stool glitchy-gleeched otto me arse.” Long live Molly Bloom! A first, primordial cry from the ancient wilds of sense-memory intones. The old Adam, original man, rouses himself once again. Sense-memory and love rise above the straight lines of proper reason. Joyce launches psychedelia with his forays into stream-of-consciousness, an acid trip without the acid.

    If a work of art is merely good and not great, it’s because nobody important ever declared it crap. Great art, being freakish, has a palpable dimension of perversion and mangled truth. For that reason, the establishment, its guardians of manners and morals being a given, must object to this new thing, until the joint turns us onto a new era. Great art forms the turning joints of culture.

    With the establishment of psychedelia, now becoming a mass movement, the cycle
    reverses and humanity returns to the jungle wilds of antiquity, except that, this time
    around, the jungle wilds populate the interiors of the mind. Conceptual curvilinearity,
    being unable to fully mimic natural curvilinearity, makes due with an approximation.

    The new, conceptual curvilinearity, being the standard-bearer for civilization, must be
    something not quite original curvilinearity. The gains of evolution, in order to be
    preserved, cannot make a full return to antiquity lest civilization collapse and
    disintegrate.

    This new gap between existential and conceptual curvilinearity creates an opening for
    establishmentarian comeback.

    In the wake of the inadvertent terrorism of Woodstock: A Three-Day Festival of Art and Music, alarm! It was a potent version of a nascent return to DIY culture writ large by the masses. Oh, no! Affluent children of Wall Street’s golden demographic: 18 years to 49, upper middle class, with ample, disposable income, are now returning to a natural life on the land?

    Wall Street turned white-faced with terror over the exposure of the business boondoggle as expendable middle-men. Psychedelia had moved beyond the larks of the drug-addled. It was the global village threatening to become a real, almost old-fashioned village.

    Now the mavens of classical analysis, encouraged by the precepts and imperatives of Wall Street, had a mission via the advertising blitz: bat down conceptual curvilinearity, returning allegiance of the masses to the conservatism of the Academy, with its big five disciplines of social power: the law; the medicine; the technics (engineering); the commerce (business) and the Source (theism_atheism_cosmos) (humanities). Down with hippies! They’re drug-addled layabouts!

    Facing the active terrorism of the Viet Nam protest, the government draws its bottom line and declares: “continue pushing this protest and we will kill you.” The government-sponsored killing commenced on the campus of Kent State University.

    Post-Psychedelia

    The circular cycles of curvilinearity/rectilinearity notwithstanding, linear, forward
    evolution continues.

    Since the man-woman dance is the basic cell of civilization, linear, forward evolution
    cannot continue unless, eventually, it effects a radical reconfiguration all the way down
    at the absolute base of things: the basic gender identities that create the basic cell.

    Thus, the interweave of post-psychedelia naturally pulls away from simple male, simple
    female to… what?

    Within the contentious, social phantasmagoria of the early twenty-first century, we’re
    getting a first look at the post-male, post-female homo-sapiens categories.

    A battle is underway. The new, forward-looking curvilinearity of non-binary advocates
    such as Jaden Smith and Chaz Bono, with ethics rooted in love is pitched against the
    establishmentarian, conservative-looking rectilinearity of power-prioritizers such as
    Dennis Praeger and Jordan Peterson.

    As parties on both sides of the aisle cry out passionately with basic questions such as,
    “What is man?!” “What is woman?!”, I return to my premise.

    A universe in motion, like ours, contains no final answers or states.

    It contains, instead, evolving answers and states.
  • universeness
    6.3k
    You have stated a great deal, but is your OP mainly about the statements made? Is your goal to get readers to consider the validity of the statements you make? or do you want specific responses to such as:
    A universe in motion, like ours, contains no final answers or states.
    It contains, instead, evolving answers and states.
    ucarr

    Does this whole OP consolidate into something that has been discussed many times on TPF, such as:
    Do objective truths exist?

    What for you, for example, does the term 'constant' exemplify, on the scale of the universe?
    Do you consider the speed of light in a vacuum, constant, for example?
  • ucarr
    1.5k
    You have stated a great deal, but is your OP mainly about the statements made? Is your goal to get readers to consider the validity of the statements you make? or do you want specific responses to such as:universeness

    A universe in motion, like ours, contains no final answers or states.
    It contains, instead, evolving answers and states.
    ucarr

    The above quote is my framing context. It lays a foundation for the upshot of my OP: the sexual identities of the 21st century, which I characterize as sexual fantasia, are a natural and inevitable development from the continuum of changes that precede it.

    My train of thought entails my claim psychedelia began with Joyce's stream-of-consciousness narratives; continued through the civil rights struggle in America; onward into LSD_free love and its culmination, Woodstock; got a booster rocket from women's lib and gay lib; crossed a categorical boundary with the digital revolution, and then, all of these human identity expanding changes acting in tandem, having worked their way down to the basic cell of human organization, the man-woman dance, worked its exploding plastic_fantastic, thus setting the wheel of gender ID spinning at a rate both blinding and vertiginous. Digital technology, powered by QM in application, now let's human individuals choose their gender ID post-natal. This change is foundational and important, I argue, because it brings the physical body into closer parity with the multifarious complexity of the mind. So now, in the 21st century, we have human-gender ID fantasia. Just fifty years ago, who thought human gender ID would soon become a designer industry?
  • universeness
    6.3k

    I think psychedelia began way way before James Joyce. It probably started even way before the first drug induced prophecy, uttered by a wacked out oracle of Delphi.
    I am sure substance abuse has played many interesting parts in the science produced by many scientists in the past and the present. Perhaps one of the most interesting groups was the Fundamental Fysiks Group, in the 60's

    We adjust, when we learn new truths or more accurate detail. That's what most rational folks do. Gender as a social construct and genetic sex, as a notion that is biologically, not strictly binary, does have a lot of compelling supporting evidence, from many biologists. So, I agree that what has been taken in the past, as 'male' or 'female,' with no biologically sound, intersex gradations in-between, is now very unlikely to be true. Sex is not a strict binary. But the idea that human declared truths often have a 'margin of error,' does not mean that no universal constants, exist. The most accurate measure of the speed of light is
    299,792,458 (based on a quick google search.) This must have a margin of error, I agree, in the sense that it's 'level of accuracy,' is not known to the nth decimal place, just like Pi etc. But, what can we do with that? What is your main punchline here? The fact that we don't know the value of the speed of light or the value of Pi to the nth decimal place does not mean that such does not exist, but what gap are you suggesting this creates? and what are you suggesting that gap should be filled with?
  • ucarr
    1.5k
    The fact that we don't know the value of the speed of light or the value of Pi to the nth decimal place does not mean that such does not exist, but what gap are you suggesting this creates? and what are you suggesting that gap should be filled with?universeness

    You're right about the antiquity of psychedelia, so I propose to amend my narrative to say Joyce played a role in giving a literary gloss to it, just as he supplied QM with "quark."

    This question gets to the core of my thinking in this OP. My understanding of calculus vis-a-vis pi and the like is that analysis, being rooted within rectilinearity, makes only a close approach to the circle and therefore, curvilinearity, the essence of natural forms, remains incommensurable with analysis.

    The gap, therefore, as you already know, acts the role of safe harbor for mystically real things.

    The fact that we don't know the value of the speed of light or the value of Pi to the nth decimal place does not mean that such does not exist...universeness

    I cite your above quote as authority for claiming mystically real things as being extant things as opposed to being speculations. This is a way of claiming science has some limitations WRT to nature. Heisenberg Uncertainty is another plank in the foundation of this claim.

    We know science has satisfactory ways of dealing with scientific incommensurability with nature, so this is not an attack on the veracity of science. It does, however, stand as a weak opposition to scientism. No, science can't best comprehend everything. And, moreover, as science gets pushed ever closer to fulfilling the role of panacea, the more our allegiance to it becomes an article of faith. If science does generate correct, finally unverifiable faith, then it falls under jurisdiction of Gödel's Incompleteness Theorem: science, like math, generates some true statements that science can't prove formally.

    The gap, then, traces back to scientific measurement limitations as a constraint upon our facts database and also upon the scope of epistemology.

    The gap therefore harbors the holism of the existential and the axiomatics generated thereof.

    I'm wondering if the above limitations are enough to let us infer science being always stopped at the doorstep of existential holism. Knowing this would lead us to conclude that science will always be a simulation of the universe. The universe, then, is completely simulatable while always remaining unknowable. This is another angle of view upon conservation of matter and energy; existence can neither be created nor destroyed; it merely changes form.

    The mystical part of conservation of existence is, perhaps, that all perceivable existing things are only simulations of simulations within an insuperable, cosmic hall of mirrors. I think this speculation may have some corroboration in the Susskind_T’hooft theory positing a holographic universe.

    Maybe this reverse-engineers supplemental credence to Plato's realm of ideal forms.
  • Teller
    27


    Exactly what the hell are you talking about?
  • ucarr
    1.5k


    Exactly what the hell are you talking about?Teller

    The gist of my thesis: Analysis, when faced with the more complex, curvilinear forms of the natural world, as, for example, asymmetrical emergence, of necessity pushes beyond discrete boundaries of material objects towards a fantasia of mandala integrations of contrasting things.

    The emergence of sentient mind from gray matter stands matchless as the psychedelic break from thermodynamically constrained mass_energy. Consider our dialogue herein, for example: two agglomerations of mass_energy self-aware and correlated in written conversation.

    Now, in the 21st century, the discrete binary of the gender divide undergoes a technology-driven explosion into the new, spinning whirl of the mandala wheel of sexual expression. Designer technics for tailored gender IDs are now on sale.
  • 180 Proof
    15.4k
    I've got nothing to say
    but it's okay

    Fab gear! :sparkle: :up:
  • universeness
    6.3k
    Ucarr, ucarr, ucarr :halo: This OP, for me now just reduces, under cooking, to another 'god of the gaps' proposal.
    I cite your above quote as authority for claiming mystically real things as being extant things as opposed to being speculations.ucarr

    All of the 'evidence' you lay out in very pretty prose like sentences, are of anecdotal interest only.
    Only someone who already assign's brainspace and a significant level of credence to the existence of the supernatural, would be attracted by all of the nice looking shinies you offer in your almost poetically packaged prose. Do you not think that this whole op, could be reduced to.
    "Any gap, science is currently unable to fill with an empirically provable natural explanation, is defibrillation, for the existence of god/a supernatural with intent."

    I know that my sentence above does not demonstrate as interesting a command of English as you can demonstrate, and it does not contain any supportive anecdotal examples, but it is imo, a lot shorter and makes the same base proposal you are making.
  • Ø implies everything
    252
    I mostly agree with your post. The cycle between psychedelic and non-psychedelic modes are characterized by an increase and decrease in people's conceptual, perceptual and emotional latent inhibition. Once the latent inhibition allows us to see the roughness/curviness of the edges of our concepts/percepts/emotions, the boundaries fall apart; panic and chaos ensues. We eventually find our solace and joy in acceptance of the destruction of the logical; we find calmness in realizing the paralogicality at the bottom of everything; the unattainability of what we once thought we had. With this decrease in latent inhibition, the conceptual realm takes the biggest hit, the perceptual realm the next biggest hit, and the emotional realm the smallest hit. Thus, a shift in prioritization from the conceptual towards the emotional happens; I believe love over power is a manifestation of this.

    We make our return to the non-psychedelic mode only through conceptual compromise; a curvilinear approximation takes place, and the conceptual realm becomes ever more complex. I agree that yes, we are seeing the process happening with gender. Currently, a lot of those with radical views on gender have a stance devoid of logic, allowing the boundaries of definition to dissolve completely; your gender can be your current mood or your favorite Apache attack helicopter. We will all only return to rectilinearity once a compromise is done; gender goes from discrete binary property to a one-dimensional continuum, or maybe a multi-dimensional continuum (or perhaps that'll be the next development).

    Fascinating stuff; this all happens to relate a recent Cubensis trip of mine, so I found your post highly interesting.
  • ucarr
    1.5k
    The fact that we don't know the value of the speed of light or the value of Pi to the nth decimal place does not mean that such does not exist, but what gap are you suggesting this creates? and what are you suggesting that gap should be filled with?universeness

    I cite your above quote as authority for claiming mystically irrationally real things as being extant things as opposed to being speculations.ucarr

    I erred in my characterization of the permanent denizens of the gaps as being "mystical." My correction, displayed above, instead characterizes them as "irrational." I use this term in the math sense: "not expressible as a ratio of two integers." The meaning of this definition, in my context herein, concerns a lack of wholeness, or a lack of discretely discernible boundaries.

    We know through the set of irrational numbers that math has no problem using them within scientific applications. Therefore it follows that arguments based upon them are not “god of the gaps” arguments. However, this exemption is only verifiably applicable to abstract concepts. Does it also apply to mass_energy objects, assuming such things as irrational mass_energy objects exist? If an incompletable material objects exists, must we regard it as being a partial yet real object? How does a discrete material entity such as homo sapiens interact with a partial object? If such interactions are possible, do they entail causal relations between the two? Are there any emergentist relationships between the two?

    In your above quote (top), beyond mere acknowledgement, you assert the existential reality of things permanently unknown to science. I think one apt exemplar of this definition is the axiomatic curvilinearity of natural forms. Science has a very satisfactory working relationship with nature, but the disjunction, I presume, persists all the way down to the Planck scale.

    :halo: This OP, for me now just reduces, under cooking, to another 'god of the gaps' proposal.universeness

    "Any gap, science is currently unable to fill with an empirically provable natural explanation, is defibrillation, for the existence of god/a supernatural with intent."universeness

    So, you see the discontinuity of analysis vis-a-vis nature as a progressive vanishing point. Like with the ratio of a circle's diameter to its circumference, science can approximate the attributes and behaviors of nature as closely as needed, and thus supernatural things can only cling to life-support, prisoners in solitary confinement, stripped of their power (to deceive).

    Even if partial mass_energy things don't exist non-congnitively, we know they exist within the minds of humans. Picking one example, I say we don't customarily measure the volume (as distinguished from intensity) of our emotional states. Nonetheless we regard them as indisputably real. For this reason, the robust discreteness of scientific truth does not cover the entire spectrum of essential human experience.

    For this reason, societies oscillate individually and collectively between the naturalistic clarity of science and logic and the opulent fantasia and psychedelic vibrancy of emotional exuberance. As the 60s echoed the 20s, I claim our 20s echo the 60s.

    My bifurcation of rectilinear/curvilinear, an essential motif of my thesis, doesn't take aim at filling scientific hiccups with claims unsupportable by reason. Instead, it aims to assess historical cycles of emphases leaning towards one or the other side of the bifurcation. I do this in order to argue that the new explosion of post-natal gender ID possibilities, curvilinear, characterizes the next phase of free love.
  • ucarr
    1.5k
    The cycle between psychedelic and non-psychedelic modes are characterized by an increase and decrease in people's conceptual, perceptual and emotional latent inhibition. Once the latent inhibition allows us to see the roughness/curviness of the edges of our concepts/percepts/emotions, the boundaries fall apart; panic and chaos ensues. We eventually find our solace and joy in acceptance of the destruction of the logical; we find calmness in realizing the paralogicality at the bottom of everything...Ø implies everything

    :up: :100:

    Your narrative is excellent! You've added good reasoning to the argument without the poetic frills of my whimsical imagery. Thank-you for weighing in, Ø implies everything.
  • wonderer1
    2.2k
    Picking one example, I say we don't customarily measure the volume (as distinguished from intensity) of our emotional states. Nonetheless we regard them as indisputably real. For this reason, the robust discreteness of scientific truth does not cover the entire spectrum of essential human experience.ucarr

    Perhaps periods of time in an emotional state are more reasonably understood as events than as things? I'd say that from such a perspective our inability to discuss the volume of an emotional state becomes a non-issue. Furthermore, apropos to discussing events, the duration of time spent in an emotional state is a meaningful measure.
  • ucarr
    1.5k
    Perhaps periods of time in an emotional state are more reasonably understood as events than as things? I'd say that from such a perspective our inability to discuss the volume of an emotional state becomes a non-issuewonderer1

    You imply events are not things. Why aren't they?

    ...apropos to discussing events, the duration of time spent in an emotional state is a meaningful measure.wonderer1

    Is there any phenomenon that doesn't find time a meaningful measure?
  • wonderer1
    2.2k
    You imply events are not things. Why aren't they?ucarr

    Pragmatically speaking, distinguishing things and events as different ontological categories is extremely valuable, and this is so strongly intuitively obvious to me I'm not sure where to begin.

    Perhaps it is events all the way down, and our seeing 'things' is just a matter of the way our brains represent events, due to it being (arguably) evolutionarily adaptive for our brains to be as they are.

    Seeing events as things is just something our brains do, the science of which can be understood to a substantial degree. So seeing things is an aspect of how we are able to be rather long lasting events.
  • ucarr
    1.5k
    ...distinguishing things and events as different ontological categories is extremely valuable...wonderer1

    Is there any part of an event that doesn't belong to the mass_energy category?

    Our language allows "the" to modify "event," thus indicating the latter is a noun i.e., a thing. Does this syntax present a fallacy?

    Since many events encompass many things as their components, each with its own configuration of its components, does a configuration of multiple things suggest something different from a solitary thing?
  • universeness
    6.3k
    My bifurcation of rectilinear/curvilinear, an essential motif of my thesis, doesn't take aim at filling scientific hiccups with claims unsupportable by reason. Instead, it aims to assess historical cycles of emphases leaning towards one or the other side of the bifurcation. I do this in order to argue that the new explosion of post-natal gender ID possibilities, curvilinear, characterizes the next phase of free love.ucarr

    Ok, that's all well and good. Your statements are becoming less comparable with mere lazy notions such as 'our universe was created by an eternal mind with intent.' I would now reduce, via cooking, your statements down to something like. I am unable to know the extent of the term biggest or smallest. The scientific method is incapable of knowing either extent. Such can only be known 'relatively.' This means there must be a knowledge beyond science.
    You then seem to be posing this as 'food for thought,' and asking 'how do we account for/answer this?
    The best we have at present, is the planck scale. The result of 'smaller than the planck scale', seems to be 'black holes.' So, that's where we are imo, ucarr. Amongst many other things, Humans need a lot more data about black holes. I am sure there are many theists who remain hopeful, that evidence of god will be found inside black holes. Perhaps they are one of it's final, possible, places to remain divinely hidden in. Theism absolutely deserves to be reduced to a set of proposals that remain way, way out in the fringes of human credence. I find it very shocking and I think it's a big reason why so many humans feel so disappointed in their own species (to the extent that it helps them become pessimists and doomsters), that theism, theosophism and organised religion still has so many followers amongst us, when the evidence against the existence of such is so overwhelming.

    On the other extent, ie, 'biggest.' The universe at the scale of superclusters of galaxies, has such data as:

    The biggest single entity that scientists have identified in the universe is a supercluster of galaxies called the Hercules-Corona Borealis Great Wall. It's so wide that light takes about 10 billion years to move across the entire structure. For perspective, the universe is only 13.8 billion years old.

    You might enjoy this:
    Galaxy patterns and brain patterns
    2xlqMvWkT9u10X4chXpb_file.jpg

    Personally, I remain very sceptical of such 'pattern' conflations, but they are fun conflations.
  • wonderer1
    2.2k


    Gore Tex patterns.

    membrane%20pores.jpg?h=7c5f2954

    Rather wooish of that article to treat the superficial similarity between inflated/stretched matter and biologically grown brains as more than the superficial similarity that it is.

    Given the speed of light, the cosmos would make for an awfully slow working brain.
  • wonderer1
    2.2k
    Our language allows "the" to modify "event," thus indicating the latter is a noun i.e., a thing. Does this syntax present a fallacy?ucarr

    I wouldn't call it a fallacy so much as being an aspect of the way our brains model the world in simplistic manageable chunks. I suppose it creates the potential for false analogy fallacies, but off the top of my head I can't think of relevant examples.
  • universeness
    6.3k
    Rather wooish of that article to treat the superficial similarity between inflated/stretched matter and biologically grown brains as more than the superficial similarity that it is.

    Given the speed of light, the cosmos would make for an awfully slow working brain.
    wonderer1

    I agree. Very flimsy evidence for a big Boltzmann style brain, imo, at the scale of galactic superclusters.
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