But then this consciousness wouldn’t be nothing as events or more precisely thoughts are happening in it. Yet it’s all happening without any dimensions being present, would time be more tangible in this scenario or would it still present an illusion to this mind for if past thought was a fabrication of the present state of mind then there would be no linearity but merely the illusion of it unless grounded in concrete stuff which would still somewhat present the same limitation from an idealistic (idealism) perspective? — simplyG
so time to that effect only makes sense in terms of past, present future which make time appear more concrete in terms of its existence — simplyG
If however, in a purely hypothetical world where only consciousness existed without dimensions to speak of, then time would be a but comparison of different states of consciousness which are events or thoughts in themselves and in terms of linearity of their occurrence. This is of course hard to imagine. — simplyG
How many thoughts can it have about nothing and how could it tell in which order those nothing thoughts occurred? — Vera Mont
There are probably some things he could conjure a priori, mainly math, some philosophy. Either way, the hypothetical helps us better understand the concept of time. — finarfin
Before we can do that, please explain how any of those hypothetical events could take place in a universe full of nothing. — Vera Mont
Whether it is possible is beside the point, so long as it's not logically inconsistent. — finarfin
Just as Space would not exist without Matter, Time would not exist without Change. They are two sides of the same coin. Which Einstein curiously labelled "space-time", as a four-dimensional continuum, not of Being, but of Potential. :smile:Time is a special dimension that only occurs in relation to change happening in space. If we take space away (all three dimensions) would time exist or would it be meaningless to talk of time in such a hypothetical situation? — simplyG
If we take space away (all three dimensions) would time exist or would it be meaningless to talk of time in such a hypothetical situation? — simplyG
Logically inconsistent with what? You have this uncaused, unembodied, dimensionless consciousness counting nothing and philosophizing about nothing. In nothing, there is literally nothing to perceive, chronologize or think about. The idea is wholly self-contradictory. — Vera Mont
And if you emphasize addressing the hard-problem of consciousness — finarfin
You can't experience nothing. Which is probably why, in a coma, people don't experience or remember anything. That's because they are unconscious. See?absolutely nothing but the ability to perceive and think. — finarfin
I didn't bring that up; you did — Vera Mont
You can't experience nothing. Which is probably why, in a coma, people don't experience or remember anything. That's because they are unconscious. See? — Vera Mont
You can't experience nothing. — Vera Mont
Time is just a product of human perception, which is mental in nature. If one is put into a room with no windows, but just 4 walls, floor and ceiling, and he has been kept in the space for few days, he will never have a single clue on the amount of time passed while he was in captivity in the space, because there was no events, changes or movements at all around him for his perception to realise the time durations happened in that space. — Corvus
If he has a body, he experiences time through the changes in his body. Most urgently, increasing thirst, and by the end of five or six days, dying. If he were fed and watered at intervals, he could experience less significant changes: sleep and waking, boredom and terror, beard and fingernails growing, the arrival of food and need to eliminate. That's how you generally mark the passage of time in solitary confinement, hospital or long train rides: mealtimes.If one is put into a room with no windows, but just 4 walls, floor and ceiling, and he has been kept in the space for few days, he will never have a single clue on the amount of time passed — Corvus
But wouldn't he still feel as if time passed? He would be able to estimate how much time passed based on his awareness of his own thoughts, creating an internal clock. His sucessive sequence of thoughts also creates the perception of time. — finarfin
If he has a body, he experiences time through the changes in his body. Most urgently, increasing thirst, and by the end of five or six days, dying. If he were fed and watered at intervals, he could experience less significant changes: sleep and waking, boredom and terror, beard and fingernails growing, the arrival of food and need to eliminate. That's how you generally mark the passage of time in solitary confinement, hospital or long train rides: mealtimes.
But then walls and a body are something. Even a disembodied consciousness is something. The problem here is not with time - which you're absolutely right has no autonomous existence - but the concept of "nothing". — Vera Mont
Let's imagine someone waking up from a coma or a long deep sleep. They would be confused about why they are in a confined space with walls and silence. In this situation, they wouldn't even be able to guess the time. — Corvus
Then they would be as a newborn babe, in urgent need of nourishment and stimulation. Without memories or current events, language or objects on which to focus attention, their mind would have no material to work on. Time would hardly be of any concern - except that the more of it passed in isolation, the more of the mind would be lost. It would be an interesting horror experiment to see how soon the subject becomes catatonic.They might try to remember what happened before they went into the deep sleep, but what if their mind is blank and they can't recall anything? — Corvus
Nobody's ever even faked a blurry picture of it. Of course it doesn't 'exist', any more than colour, size and speed exist: these are attributes of material entities.If time exists in the universe, — Corvus
This concept of different time perceptions could indeed be an interesting scientific and metaphysical experiment, exploring the subjective nature of time and how it is perceived by individuals. It could provide valuable insights into the human experience and our understanding of time itself. — Corvus
Lots of research on Time Perception already exists. Even I have written a playful Elementary note on the subject. — jgill
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