Maybe, just maybe, the bone spurs magically disappeared after 1968. — GRWelsh

Believe me, they were absolutely incredible bone spurs. They were by far the best bone spurs that anyone has ever had. Only Trump could ever have had bone spurs that were this amazing.

Here's a CNN list of 24 former Trump aides and allies all of whom now see him as a threat to democracy.

Here's a CNN list of 24 former Trump aides and allies all of whom now see him as a threat to democracy — Wayfarer

This must be historically unprecedented in the United States, maybe with the exception of Nixon, right? To have so many turn on you?

What frustrates me is that this is clear evidence that he really is as shit of a human being as us libtards think he is, but MAGAts will convince themselves this is evidence that everyone who turned on him is a RINO or they were captured by the deep state or some other shit. They couldn't possibly grapple with the possibility that his allies started calling him an evil fuck after a while because they found out he is, in fact, an evil fuck.

This must be historically unprecedented in the United States, maybe with the exception of Nixon, right? To have so many turn on you? — flannel jesus

Doesn't really have that many parallels with Nixon. After all, he exhibited a sense of shame, and acknowledged a duty to the country. But then, compared to Trump, Richard Nixon was a gentleman.

Read this exposé in Politico. Truly scary. He's succeeded by innoculating millions of people against reality. He's managed to capitalize and monetize mass delusion. Couldn't have done it without TV of course. That's what's made him.

Last week, in a memo written by Club for Growth president David McIntosh to a Club-linked PAC called Win it Back, the takeaway was stark: Trump’s supporters do not care what he did or what he said before. They like him still. They like him now. “It is amazing,” McIntosh told me in a text. “All attempts to undermine his conservative credentials on specific issues were ineffective,” the memo said. “Even when you show video to Republican primary voters with complete context of President Trump saying something otherwise objectionable to primary voters, they find a way to rationalize and dismiss it.”

“What I saw there that really stood out to me was that people dismissed any negative information about Donald Trump as just another attack on Donald Trump,” Mercieca told me (Jen Mercieca, the author of Demagogue for President: The Rhetorical Genius of Donald Trump). “So they want to believe that Donald Trump is their guy, and he’s a good guy, that he’s fighting for them and that no one else is, that everything is corrupt, and he’s the only one who will save them. That’s the message that he has always given them,” she said. “Every attack against him feeds the narrative that he has created.”

There's an old saying in the Catholic Church: the Devil is the father of lies.

Well, move over, Devil.

...what hope is there for Trump to win in 2024? — GRWelsh

As my (preacher's wife) mom said after the 2020 election, "Republicans need to get better at election fraud themselves." I suppose that is a sort of hope.

Republicans need to get better at election fraud themselves. — wonderer1

They tried quite a lot in 2020. I expect their 2024 efforts will be even further ramped up.

They're convinced leftists are cheating because they know conservatives are cheating. And Bidens 2020 win has definitely convinced them of that even more, and they're going to try harder.

It looks like Biden is beginning to build Trump’s wall, citing the massive surge of illegals entering the country. He waived The Clean Air Act, Safe Drinking Water Act and Endangered Species Act, among others, with the stroke of his pen.

https://apnews.com/article/border-wall-biden-immigration-texas-rio-grande-147d7ab497e6991e9ea929242f21ceb2

Cue the anger and protests? No; The outrage of the past was as selective as the anti-Trump attention span. It doesn’t suit any political need or signal their hypocritical virtue. The problem is, they virtue-signalled the country closer to disaster with a problem that could have been alleviated years ago. It wasn’t until illegals started showing up on their doorstep demanding the sanctuary of sanctuary cities that these fakes started acting.

So, are you saying Biden is doing what you want, now, since this is what Trump was doing? But you're still not happy because there is no liberal outrage over Biden doing the same thing Trump was doing -- which is hypocritical? I don't know what the solution to the immigration issue is, but I'm not sure it's a border wall. What I found most ridiculous was how Trump claimed he'd get it built and then have Mexico pay for it. He only got a fraction of it built. Then he turned around and asked Congress -- i.e., you and me and the other American taxpayers -- to pay for it! That is what I found outrageous, not the mere concept of a border wall. I'm in favor of enforcing existing immigration laws, and insisting on immigrants following the legal process to get into the country.

Here's a CNN list of 24 former Trump aides and allies all of whom now see him as a threat to democracy. — Wayfarer

The problem is that the Trumpsters do not want to preserve democracy. Democracy is part of the problem. They want an autocratic leader who has the vision and power to do the right thing. They do not want to give the enemy an equal say in how things should be.

I don't understand why you're complaining about it. You would praise Trump for building it, would you praise Biden?

Cue the anger and protests? No — NOS4A2

Biden criticized for waiving 26 laws in Texas to allow border wall construction

Joe Biden faced intense criticism from environmental advocates, political opponents and his fellow Democrats after the president’s administration waived 26 federal laws to allow border wall construction in south Texas, its first use of a sweeping executive power that was often employed under Donald Trump.

Also, Biden argues his hands were tied with border wall funds

“The money was appropriated for the border wall. I tried to get them to reappropriate, to redirect that money. They didn’t. They wouldn’t,” he said. “In the meantime, there’s nothing under the law other than they have to use the money for what it was appropriated for. I can’t stop that.”

Biden was asked whether he thought the border wall was effective and responded “no.”

…

Biden aides Thursday repeatedly sought to highlight that the funding being used to build several miles of additional wall was allocated before Biden took office.

“Fact: Congress is forcing us to do this under a 2019 law. Fact: We called on Congress to cancel these funds. They didn’t. We follow the rule of law,” deputy press secretary Andrew Bates wrote on X, the platform formerly known as Twitter. “Congress needs to stop delaying the effective border solutions @POTUS proposed.”

I don't know what the solution to the immigration issue is, but I'm not sure it's a border wall. — GRWelsh

https://www.migrationpolicy.org/article/rapid-proliferation-number-border-walls

Yet the claim that walls have been nearly universally “successful” could not be further from the truth. Research from around the world indicates that both the direct and indirect costs of building border walls exceed the benefits. Tunnels, drones, ladders, ramps, document forgery, and corruption—the strategies for circumventing the walls end up multiplying. Walls do not achieve the objectives for which they are said to be erected; they have limited effects in stemming insurgencies and do not block unwanted flows, but rather lead to a re-routing of migrants to other paths. As migrants take other routes, circumventing the obstacles and therefore becoming more difficult to monitor, they rely more on smugglers and as a result pay greater costs. This is a process that many studies have shown, for instance along the U.S.-Mexico border and between Israel and the West Bank. As border enforcement increases, so do smugglers’ profits and the presence of organized crime.

https://www.cato.org/blog/border-wall-didnt-work

After a temporary lull in migration during the early part of the pandemic, that very month (October 2020) saw a significant jump in both known successful entries (what the Border Patrol calls “gotaways”), as well as arrests to levels as high as before the pandemic, and the numbers kept rising. Even before Biden assumed office, the Border Patrol was making more arrests and witnessing far more successful crossings after the wall went up than most months before the Trump wall.

...

The Trump border wall failed for all the predictable reasons. Immigrants used cheap ladders to climb over it, or they free climb it. They used cheap power tools to cut through it. They cut through small pieces and squeezed through, and they cut through big sections and drove through. In one small section in 2020, they sawed through at least 18 times that Border Patrol knew about in a month. They also made tunnels. Some tunnels were long, including the longest one ever discovered, but some were short enough just to get past the barrier.

While it was always obvious why the wall would never stop crossings, the border wall may actually have been counterproductive. The New York Times reported the roads created to build the wall “now serve as easy access points for smugglers and others seeking to enter the once‐​remote areas along the border.”

But most importantly, many, if not most, crossers never tried to evade capture. They just walked up to the fence (which is mostly in the United States) and asked to be arrested, so they can try to obtain asylum.

They do not want to give the enemy an equal say in how things should be. — Fooloso4

"Enemy" being the operative term here.

Truly scary. He's succeeded by innoculating millions of people against reality. — Wayfarer

How so? Were they previously good, decent human beings who could easily tell reality from fantasy?

By saying Trump innoculated millions of people against reality, you're basically calling all those millions of people sheeple.

The truly scary thing is the idea that human goodness is weak and easily corruptible.

"Enemy" being the operative term here. — baker

Yes. The enemy is anyone who questions or is critical of Trump.

Why does Trump call the AG a “peekaboo”? What does that even mean? I know it in the context of hiding and showing yourself to a baby?

I hadn't paid much attention to the Trump Organization civil trail in New York. Seeing how it's going now, I think the consequences might be even greater than those potentially coming from the criminal trials. It never struck me before how big a blow this could be, financially, politically, and psychologically.

I hadn't paid much attention to the Trump Organization civil trail in New York. Seeing how it's going now, I think the consequences might be even greater than those potentially coming from the criminal trials. It never struck me before how big a blow this could be, financially, politically, and psychologically. — T Clark

That's very insightful. This trial gets at Trump for what he fundamentally is, a fraud, who inflates property values to get loans and deflates then when paying taxes. If he has to finally pay the consequences of doing this, it hits at his wealth and the value of his brand. If he has to sell all of these Trump-based properties to pay the fines, then what is he anymore? It strikes down the Trump mythology of being this successful businessman -- what his identity is built upon. I saw Michael Cohen comment that if you want to hurt Donald Trump, hurt him in the pocket book, because that's all he cares about. And if you think about it, he's always trying to avoid spending his own money. Trump raises money, but doesn't like to spend his own money, even on his legal fees. This could be huge.

It strikes down the Trump mythology of being this successful businessman — GRWelsh

I'm not so sure it does. Those who know him already know that he is much more successful as a con artist than a businessman. This goes back long before he entered politics. The Trumpsters see all this as they are told to see it - not only is he the victim but they too are or will be the victims of a corrupt political system if not for him.

What about those who fall into neither camp? I think most see the trappings of great wealth and success and will look no further.

But I would very much like to be wrong about this.

In the summer of 2022 I had speculated that the NYS civil fraud case would be Loser-1's Achilles Heel and at the top of a list of reasons he'll likely have to drop out of the primaries ...

https://thephilosophyforum.com/discussion/comment/726831

My guess is that the verdict will drop before the 2023 holiday season begins (mid-Nov) and the NYS AG will win a judgment, including "clawing back" $500m - $1b USD of ill-gotten profits, which will trigger a fire sale of business assets to begin by the summer / fall of 2024 while Loser-1 will be appealing his convictions in the federal J6 Conspiracy trial and beginning (after more than half of his co-conspirators have "flipped") of the slam-dunk state RICO trial in Fulton Co, GA. 'Self-financing' will be impossible by the end of 2023 (if it isn't already – IIRC, according to his tax returns, Loser-1 has a $300m debt that comes due in 2024 and his 90%-owned, failed media platform "Truth Social" has lost $600m in value since 2022 knocking him again off the Forbes 400); also, there are just not enough small donor MAGA-morons (especially since GOP mega donors abandoned him a couple of years ago) to subsidize Loser-1's legal bills AND campaign grift or, for that matter, for him to overcome his electoral losing streak and win the popular vote in 2024 (especially if and when the Secretaries-of-State movement to remove Loser-1 from state ballots pursuant to the US Constitution's 14th Amendment, Section 3 "Insurrection Clause" spreads like wildfire to a number of "purple" / "reddish" states).

Loser 1's Money Dominos Are Falling! :clap: :mask:

Yesterday Biden admin waives federal laws to allow border wall construction in Texas.

It would be hilarious if the Biden admin built 53 miles of new wall, one more mile than Trump.

hurt him in the pocket book, — GRWelsh

I think you're right. As I said, it just had never struck me before.

Loser 1's Money Dominos Are Falling! — 180 Proof

Yes. It has come as a surprise to me to recognize the significance.

Truly scary. He's succeeded by innoculating millions of people against reality.
— Wayfarer
How so? Were they previously good, decent human beings who could easily tell reality from fantasy? — baker

What I mean is that millions choose to believe Trump's lies over reality. Like Jan 6 was 'an evil plot by leftists' or even 'a beautiful day'. That the 2020 election really was stolen, even if every one of 60 lawsuits brought to make that case were tossed out of court. So you have a significant proportion of the electorate who cannot be convinced of matters of fact, regardless of the evidence. That's what I meant by 'innoculated against reality'.

...millions choose to believe Trump's lies over reality. — Wayfarer

In order to choose better, one must first know of better. For reasons that are far too numerous for me to get into here, I'm not at all certain that many of those supporters are even able to comprehend all the relevant facts that may influence their worldview... particularly about Trump and US government.

I'm not at all certain that many of those supporters are even able to comprehend all the relevant facts that may influence their worldview... — creativesoul

Isn't that asking a bit much for anyone?

I’m complaining about it because there was a chance to build it years and years ago, long before the crisis got to the point we see today, but Biden ended any progress in his first day of office. Now it’s too late and everyone is floundering, dying, losing vast sums of taxpayer dollars, and generally paying in one way or another for Biden’s mistakes.

I used to know a girl, a flatmate of a friend, who firmly believed 'the news is all made up'. I wondered what she thought was really going on, if the news is all, as DJT insists, fake, but I didn't want to open that can of worms.

Illegal immigration is a problem all over the developed world, not just the US. Australia famously stopped the boats but today's press stories show that there are 105,000 immigrants with asylum requests, and unknown hundreds of thousands more visa overstays. Britain is having to push draconian laws to keep displaced people coming across the Channel and the enormous death toll in the Mediteranean is daily news.

The problem is that all the developed nations have as a matter of course a basic framework of human rights. It is one of the factors that makes them 'developed nations'. So if anyone arrives from a failed state with no human rights and no working economy - think the Central American republics, many African and Middle-Eastern territories - then it's a breach of human rights to return them. You can't, in practice, send someone from a country that holds to human rights, to a country that does not, as it's a breach of human rights. It's analogous to a process of osmosis.

Add to that the inevitable machinery of visa and asylum applications and rights-to-work, with bureaucrats required to establish the identity and bona fides of millions of displaced persons often with no passports or proof of identity. Hence backlogs of many years in the processing queues, meanwhile the subjects are all categorised as unemployable and must be given subsistence rations by the welfare state.

A sorry state of affairs, but one the Republicans are always eager to exploit for whatever partisan advantage can be found by exploiting fear and resentment, their favoured tools of choice.

Trump allegedly discussed US nuclear subs with foreign national after leaving White House

Months after leaving the White House, former President Donald Trump allegedly discussed potentially sensitive information about U.S. nuclear submarines with a member of his Mar-a-Lago Club -- an Australian billionaire who then allegedly shared the information with scores of others, including more than a dozen foreign officials, several of his own employees, and a handful of journalists, according to sources familiar with the matter.

...

Prosecutors and FBI agents have at least twice this year interviewed the Mar-a-Lago member, Anthony Pratt, who runs U.S.-based Pratt Industries, one of the world's largest packaging companies.

...

According to Pratt's account, as described by the sources, Pratt told Trump he believed Australia should start buying its submarines from the United States, to which an excited Trump -- "leaning" toward Pratt as if to be discreet -- then told Pratt two pieces of information about U.S. submarines: the supposed exact number of nuclear warheads they routinely carry, and exactly how close they supposedly can get to a Russian submarine without being detected.

What else has he talked about and to who?

Fair enough. I should've said some... not all.

:yikes: