have any of Israel's neighbors ever offered peace or reversed their desire to annihilate the Israeli state and the people in it? — tim wood
Not sure what you mean by "fed," but you could probably say "yes," in a few ways. — Count Timothy von Icarus
That said, Israel exists and is unlikely to go away. So, efforts to annihilate it are futile. I frankly feel a two-state solution is the only viable option, but doubt that is something Israel will accept. — Ciceronianus
And I also don't see what Hamas' long term goal is, getting thousands of civilians killed for some prisoners doesn't look like a price worth paying. — Manuel
A very good reply if you want to kill people. Leave morality at the door when figuring out Israeli calculus. — Benkei
If you reject the views that (1) Israel has a religious right to possess and govern the areas at issue; and/or that (2) the Jewish people have a non-religious right to possess and govern the areas at issue because it is their "homeland," then the creation of Israel was an injustice. — Ciceronianus
I hold neither of those views, and tend to think of Israel as a creation of Western powers, primarily the U.K. — Ciceronianus
Stikes will continue even if captives are hurt. :yikes:
This is wild. — Manuel
Bibi and the Israeli leadership understands that for now they will have the support of those that will support them, but that can change if some "final solution" type razing to the ground is implemented. One thing is rhetoric, another thing is implementin strategies that the Roman Army or the Soviet Army in Afghanistan implemented. They do understand that in the prison camp called Gaza, people don't have anywhere to go in the end. Yet you have a 300 000 strong force, which the majority is land forces. Gaza is small: it's 40 kilometers wide and only 6 kilometers deep. Yes, even 100 000 troops are a large force on that kind of area.Gaza will basically be razed to the ground. People will start starving in about two weeks. — Benkei
Egypt:Now you can educate: have any of Israel's neighbors ever offered peace or reversed their desire to annihilate the Israeli state and the people in it? — tim wood
That would be a Russian solution, yes. Russians don't say to Ukrainians that they are going to destroy this certain building, so keep clear...Right, if they wanted to kill a bunch of people they could lob artillery shells with impunity and do that from saftey. — Count Timothy von Icarus
Of course the current Hamas can be weakened. But simply there is the next generation waiting to stand in the boots of their fathers.I'm skeptical of their ability to actually remove Hamas during a siege though, but if they are able to dominate enough of the city, forcing Hamas to "blend in" without offering heavy resistance over wide areas, that's another blow to their legitimacy. It says they exist less as the army and government they want to be seen as. — Count Timothy von Icarus
Or hope that for the next 20 years or so, the Palestinians won't have the ability as they have now.I would imagine the calculation is that, if they can inflict these psychological losses on Hamas and kill enough of their membership, it might collapse. — Count Timothy von Icarus
And moreover, Israel has no worries as it has a nuclear deterrence. And it's neighbors don't. — ssu
Israel has referred to the use of its nuclear arsenal as 'the Samson option' - if you understand the symbology you will understand that relying on this would certainly worry the Israelis. — Tzeentch
Uuhh.... you do understand that arming half a million people, and training half a million people cost enormous mounts of money and you have to have huge resources. Organizing half a million people into a fighting force is an big issue. And Hamas or the Palestinian authority don't the capability to train and arm such forces. Remember that they have had to do everything under the surveillance of Israel.Honestly, a force of 300,000 against 2,000,000+ Palestinians (lets say 500,000 military age males) who have nowhere to run to, and are possibly quite well-armed and prepared to conduct an insurgency? I wouldn't be loving my odds if I were the Israeli general in charge. Not to mention the situation on the West Bank, the Lebanon border and with regards to outside actors like Iran. — Tzeentch
An injustice in a long line of injustices. It's not like the British mandate that preceded it was any more just. The region was regularly engulfed by war even before there were Muslims or Christians. — Echarmion
When never knows where one stands with Perfidious Albion, it's true. But there was the Balfour Resolution, announcing support for the establishment of a Jewish homeland in Palestine, and I think that's when the existing mess began to take shaper. Certainly, the British shifted support between Jewish and Arab organizations as it felt was in its interests after 1917 and through WWII, but the Resolution was never revoked; it became a question of who got what, and when. — Ciceronianus
Yes, as indeed was most of the world. But nobody has ever claimed the creation of Israel was history's only injustice, and resulted in the only wars ever fought in the region, or anywhere else. — Ciceronianus
...under Washington’s aegis, Israel has been negotiating a normalisation of ties with Saudi Arabia, bringing the two traditional foes together.
This is a nightmarish prospect for Tehran. Friendly ties between Israel, the Saudis and the Americans would represent an entente cordiale between Iran’s three greatest enemies. Or, from Tehran’s point of view, it would be an axis of its enemies.
Iran’s ambitions to become the dominant power in the Middle East would turn to ash. So the ayatollahs decided to wreck the plan by launching a massive attack on Israel. Not directly, but by using Iran’s proxy forces abroad. ....
If there were any shadow of doubt that Hamas was acting hand-in-glove with Tehran, Hamas spokesman Ghazi Hamad on Saturday told the BBC “that the group had direct backing for the attack from Iran”. And in Tehran, Yahya Rahim Safavi, senior military adviser to Iran’s supreme leader, Ayatollah Ali Khamenei, said that Iran would continue to support Hamas “until the liberation of Palestine and Jerusalem”.
Four days before Saturday’s invasion, the supreme leader himself said: “The usurper regime is coming to an end. Today, the Palestinian youth and the anti-oppression, anti-occupation movement in Palestine is more energetic, more alive, and more prepared than ever during the past 70 or 80 years. God willing, the movement will achieve its goal.” ....
How does this help the ayatollahs in Tehran? The moment Israel’s air force began its reprisal attacks on Hamas, with missiles striking the Palestinian enclave of Gaza, it became untenable for Saudi Arabia to be seen cosying up to the “Zionist regime”. For now, at least, any rapprochement between Riyadh and Jerusalem is impossible. Iran, as a result, is no longer in imminent danger of encirclement. ....
Amin Saikal says that Israel will be in dire straits if even just one more Iranian-backed guerrilla force attacks it now. “The risk of encirclement of Israel is there only if Hezbollah...enters the fight. It is in possession of more than 100,000 missiles, some quite sophisticated, long-range missiles. And we know that in the 2006 war between Israel and Hezbollah, Israel tried to destroy Hezbollah but it only emerged stronger.
“So far, the exchange of fire between Israel and Hezbollah on the weekend has been very carefully calculated to not lead to a major conflict. But if the Hamas war with Israel goes on for more than two or three weeks, Hezbollah will come under pressure from its own fighters to join the war.” ...Iran also has other forces at its disposal, including militias in Syria, that it can activate without having to directly engage Israel. The ayatollah is in a strong position to escalate should he choose to do so. Israel could be at risk of dismemberment under assault from multiple sides.
very good reply if you want to kill people. Leave morality at the door when figuring out Israeli calculus. — Benkei
But in the end where will it leave Israel? Rapprochement with the Muslim world will be impossible if the civilian death toll is high, and it probably will be. The situation on the West Bank will become further inflamed. — Tzeentch
you reject the views that (1) Israel has a religious right to possess and govern the areas at issue; and/or that (2) the Jewish people have a non-religious right to possess and govern the areas at issue because it is their "homeland," then the creation of Israel was an injustice. — Ciceronianus
As in, now Israel will never get the Muslims to care about them now that they've gone and done this? Seems the strategic angle would be that the Palestinians would try to gain the affection of the Israelies, considering they have the power to destroy them. — Hanover
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