The only truth we could ever know, the only fact 100% certain would be one that is eternally consistent. And because we can't measure anythings repeatability for eternity, we should probably just call it a day after the
first 3 or 4 measurements came out the same.
But are the facts what we know? — Pantagruel
Except that reality doesn't hold up under intense scrutiny... — Pantagruel
...none of which implies that facts are not true. Quite the contrary.Facts may point towards things, but things are not facts. Facts always exist in a context which implies a perspective. So facts are always going to evolve. — Pantagruel
"Everything we call real is made of things that cannot be regarded as real." — Pantagruel
Drop truth and statements cease to be of any use. — Banno
Old Niels seems to have been a bit hyperbolic on that one. Everything we call real cannot be regarded as understood, seems a bit more reasonable to me. — wonderer1
...and still not enough. A statements is not true if and only if there is a consensus that it is true.↪Banno No doubt, consensus is complex and not simple. :up: — Pantagruel
I don't think that the future state of the universe is trivially, mechanistically computable from the past. So the kind of "truth" that interests me isn't analytic. In a constructivist framework, consensus may well count towards truth....and still not enough. A statements is not true if and only if there is a consensus that it is true. — Banno
Nor do I, nor is that sentence strictly analytic - It's not true at the moment, for instance. The point being that there is considerable variation in the statements which are true, and Quantum Mechanics might not be a good area to choose as archetypal.I don't think that the future state of the universe is trivially, mechanistically computable from the past. — Pantagruel
I thought one was entitled to ones own opinions, but not entitled to one's own facts. — BC
magnetic pole has nothing to do with the direction in which the earth is spinning. In order for the sun to rise in the west, the earth would have to come to a standstill, and then start spinning in the other direction. — BC
True. But beliefs can sometimes be mistaken, not so, facts — Banno
Conservative evangelical: "Employers can't find anyone to fill jobs. There are all these people sitting around doing nothing, People don't want to work. That's a fact!"
Me (left/liberal/pinko): "It isn't that people don't want to work -- it's that there aren't enough workers available. The unemployment rate, according to the Bureau of Labor Statistics, is 3.1% (in this state). 3.1% unemployment is considered "full employment" -- meaning that most people who can work are working."
Conservative evangelical: "That's just your opinion."
The direction earth is spinning was arbitrarily assigned. The only thing definitive is that earth is spinning in one relatively consistent way. But East, West North and South are not fundamental to space. — Benj96
I agree with Dewey's characterization here. — Pantagruel
He had the decency, in his mature thinking, to pretty much drop talk of "truth", replacing it with "assertion" — Banno
In essence, "facts" are our best guesses. Our most plausible/convincing, practical and enduring or just simply our most popular beliefs. — Benj96
Still, a man hears what he wants to hear
And disregards the rest — Paul Simon
If all scientific facts were absolute, then there would be no possibility for scientific progress, because that requires rewriting the relationships, definitions and specifics of what came before. An update. Updating the facts. — Benj96
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