Whatever you may say about brain in vat, it's not illogical, and neither is indirect realism. — frank
Which makes me consider that one of Austin's motivations, that I grant appear hidden, is to find (or defend) a truth between metaphysical certainty and radical skepticism (which would make his concerns less than trivial). — Antony Nickles
I believe Austin may be thinking that we know the concept of dreaming from 'one's own case'. — Richard B
The argument is not that I know dreams are unlike waking experiences, it's that we know. If he were basing this on his own case, wouldn't that be "..it is just because I know that dreams are throughout unlike waking experiences that I can safely use ordinary expressions in the narration of them".And we might add here that descriptions of dreams, for example, plainly can't be taken to have exactly the same force and implications as the same words would have, if used in the description of ordinary waking experiences. In fact, it is just because we all know that dreams are throughout unlike waking experiences that we can safely use ordinary expressions in the narration of them; the peculiarity of the dream- context is sufficiently well known for nobody to be mis- led by the fact that we speak in ordinary terms. — p.42, my emphasis
:grin: As I said:The contents of your post doesn't seem to have any points against the fact that language is a tool to describe, express, criticise and diagnose the objects and world. — Corvus
I can only set the argument before you. If you can't see it, that's down to you.You'll be thinking "Yeah, but each of those is just more expressing and describing" — Banno
Yep.how would one know they are hacked when the point is for the hacker not to reveal they are hacking someone? — Antony Nickles
Nope. Worked for me, but like Antony I am using Safari.Can you re-assure me that nothing disastrous will happen if I follow the link anyway? — Ludwig V
Not a knock-down case, but Austin, of course, was writing without the benefit of access to Wittgenstein's work, so it is no surprise that he doesn't place much emphasis on distinguishing one's own case from the communal case. It probably did not occur to him that folk might read it as you have. — Banno
:lol:There is no logical ground for me to believe the world exists during my sleep — Corvus
Given this, there is no way that you will be able to understand Austin. You've just got the perception stuff far too embedded in your thinking. It's a bit sad that you have been so mislead, but them's the breaks.
You do know that the world continues while you sleep. Right up until you try to do philosophy.
So I might leave this conversation there. — Banno
You spoke it to someone with a chainsaw, not to the tree. You still cannot distinguish words and actions. — Corvus
if you insist that your words do not connect to the world and that you cannot tell if you are awake or asleep and that the world ceases to exist when you sleep, then there is little common ground on which we might move forward. — Banno
There's a curious myopia amongst those who see language as only "communication" or "information exchange", such that they have a great deal of difficulty seeing how words are actually used by people to build the world. Property, ownership, money, exchange, promises, hierarchies, the everyday paraphernalia of life is constructed by language. — Banno
how would one know they are hacked when the point is for the hacker not to reveal they are hacking someone? — Antony Nickles
Obviously. It probably has not been pointed out to you before that we do things with words. A Big Learning for you.I don't agree with you at all. — Corvus
"I promise to meet with you next Tuesday."
With that very utterance, the promise is made, and the obligation created. Uttering the sentence "I promise to meet with you next Tuesday" counts as placing myself under the obligation to meet with you next Tuesday.
Promises are an example of a type of performative utterance that makes something the case... Further examples would be:
A king in check with no legal move out of check counts as checkmate in a game of chess
A candidate who has the majority of votes in the Electoral college counts as the president-elect in US constitutional law.
That one ought keep one's promises is, on this account, not the result of some virtue on the part of the promiser, not an agreement between the promiser and the promisee, not something one is obliged to do because of the negative consequences that would ensue if folk broke their promises, not the result of convention or expectation, but simply what is done in uttering the word of a promise in suitable circumstances. — Banno
Given this, there is no way that you will be able to understand Austin. You've just got the perception stuff far too embedded in your thinking. It's a bit sad that you have been so mislead, but them's the breaks. — Banno
Obviously. It probably has not been pointed out to you before that we do things with words. A Big Learning for you. — Banno
He wants (needs to) rule that distinction out [between appearance and reality], (i.e. show that the question "How do you mean?" cannot be answered in this context). But he doesn't quite get that far. — Ludwig V
Austin’s response was something like, “see the beetle is a something and a nothing, a clear contradiction.” — Richard B
There is a difference between having no logical ground of believing in the existence of X, and the actual existence of X. — Corvus
Can you re-assure me that nothing disastrous will happen — Ludwig V
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