With all that in mind, some philosophers have exaggerated the importance of suffering and restless agitation, as a characteristic of life. They have turned it into a neccesary evil that should be embraced with open arms to improve ourselves. When in fact, it is almost always destructive. Sustained suffering leaves your body searching for death, as it consumes your soul without destroying it. — Sirius
Many of us seem to be persecuted by the idea that we should be more serious, more transcendent, more ethical. I'm somewhat simplistic - I think we should just get on with living and try not to be a cunt. — Tom Storm
There are no worthwhile goals. — unenlightened
There are no worthwhile goals. — unenlightened
Damn, this so far feels like some really melancholically pessimistic stuff. — javra
That's not the recognition of diminishing returns I'm talking about. I'm talking about someone who works hard in order to be able to afford the proverbial eating, drinking, and making merry, and who realizes that the eating, drinking, and making merry don't compensate for the hard work needed in order to be able to afford the eating, drinking, and making merry. I'm talking about people who, for example, one day realize that they need to work for an entire day in order to earn the money to be able to go to the cinema, and that the pleasure of watching the film doesn't outweigh the hardship needed to earn the money to be able to go see the film.If you want me to be completely honest. I have felt and do feel the diminishing returns thanks to my depression. — Sirius
Who gave you that medicine?I know what is it like for nothing to satisfy you, not even an hour long meditation session, medication, a dedicated study of the religious scriptures of all major world religions does the job for me
Why am l bitter ? Cause the medicine l was given didn't cure me of my illness.
The problem has more to do with how it's projected or sold as a goal to everyone, which included myself. I firmly believe it's incredibly unhelpful and even harmful to become a Buddhist for the purpose of attaining nirvana. It's akin to studying maths to win the fields medal or solve one of the 7 millennium problems. I can almost guarantee disappointment to anyone who does this.
— Sirius
It's 'projected and sold' to those who want to it to be, of which there are many. — Wayfarer
It's often 'projected and sold' in a decontextualized manner, especially socio-economically decontextualized. Eastern religions are often being presented here in the West as something one can and should do on one's own, alone, in the midst of a socio-economic environment in which those Eastern religions are alien, while the Western socio-economic environment is actually often even hostile to those religions. — baker
So I repeat, there is nothing about goals that make them worthwhile. Once get that into your head and you can begin to live a life in freedom. — unenlightened
A subtle distinction? — Janus
Mere semantics? — Janus
They can look similar. — unenlightened
But as long as you think, "I am doing this," or "I have to do this," or "I must attain something special," you are actually not doing anything... when you do not try to do anything special, then you do something. When there is no gaining idea in what you do, then you do something. — Shunryu Suzuki, Zen Mind, Beginner's Mind
In the main I agree. Though I would add that I think one can, actually, win or 'win' this battle and not longer have the parts of oneself one had. One has successfully dis-identified them to such a degree that the neurons involved have withered - take that as a metaphor or literal description depending on your paradigm. That's not a path for me. I have sympathy for people who want to eradicate parts of themselves they associate with pain. And I actually believe that if you follow the practices for a long time you can end up in less pain. But also less who you were. If you don't like those parts of yourself, well, go for it. If you do, well, then it's probably going to be just as you described.What is even more terrible is this spiritual tradition sets one up for a lifetime battle against oneself. It's a cult of self-overcoming, rooted in self-hatred, unrealistic goals and struck by a fear of relapse into all that enables one to identify with other human beings, i.e our innate weaknesses. — Sirius
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