If it was a poor simulation we would never be having this conversation because it would be common knowledge that everyone would know.
— PL Olcott
I don't see how this follows. — Michael
If we keep seeing the guy that changes the light bulb of the Sun changing its light bulb then we would know that the Sun is not a giant star millions of miles away. — PL Olcott
I posted 2x quotes from Treatise of Hume, and also added some explanations to them on how the belief arises on the existence of the External Word / Bodies.So, you've said a lot since I last posted. I wonder if you saw Hume's answer to the question you've posed? — creativesoul
I agree with you points, although personally I feel also our memory and inductive reasonings in some degree play part working with imagination for invoking beliefs in the existence of unperceived existence.According to Hume, either our perception of fact and/or our memory thereof are reason to believe that the world exists even when we're not perceiving it. — creativesoul
If we keep seeing the guy that changes the light bulb of the Sun changing its light bulb then how would we know that we are experiencing reality and not a poor simulation (or vice versa)? — Michael
So, you've said a lot since I last posted. I wonder if you saw Hume's answer to the question you've posed?
— creativesoul
I posted 2x quotes from Treatise of Hume, and also added some explanations to them on how the belief arises on the existence of the External Word / Bodies. — Corvus
I agree with you points, although personally I feel also our memory and inductive reasonings in some degree play part working with imagination for invoking beliefs in the existence of unperceived existence. — Corvus
Not at all. We know that the simulation of a giant star millions of miles away is a very terrible simulation. — PL Olcott
But if one had only ever experienced a poor simulation of reality and never experienced reality then one wouldn't know that one was experiencing a poor simulation of reality and not experiencing reality.
Perhaps in reality grass is red and the Earth has two moons.
I added some explanations for the quotes, because different people might interpret the original quotes differently. You asked the question, and I offered the answers with the quotes and added explanations. If you read any academic papers or commentaries, that's what the authors do. They don't simply copy and past the quotes, and assert the quotes says it all. They always add their interpretations. You could have agreed or disagreed with the interpretations.Was the answer to your question clearly stated in those quotes? If not, if not, then what's the point of qouting the question? Why answer like that? Normally when one quotes a question, they offer an answer. — creativesoul
Hume didn't just doubt, but offered the arguments on why people believe in the existence of unperceived objects or worlds. If you certainly know the universe existed long before you and, and also you know that there is no good reason to doubt by thinking that there will be no longer after you cease to exist, then Hume was explaining how your beliefs arise in your mind. I think Hume is one of the greatest Philosophers in history.I certainly know that the universe existed long before me. I also know that there is no good reason to doubt by thinking that there will no longer be one after I cease to exist. If there are some words written by someone that - after reading them - cause you to doubt any of that, I suggest you use that fact as a reason to commit them to the flames. — creativesoul
You claimed that the point of Noumenon is very important to the use of the term "existing". I think this is a substantial and interesting statement. If you could explain why and how it is, and from what evidences and premises that claim has originated, then that would help.The point of Noumenon is very important to the use of the term ‘existing’. — I like sushi
It sounds a signifikant admission. :)But the world is not an object; it is merely a euphemism for the totality of possible appearances, from which follows there’s no reason to believe in the existence of it, DUH!!!! because it doesn’t, — Mww
Yeah, I was wondering, if the world is not an object, but just a mere concept, then could it be A priori? Because all the livings seem to know their environments pretty well, or get used to it fast for finding food and necessities for their survival as soon as they are born. No one really teach them saying - this is the world for you.But can the world be the object of a priori knowledge?
— Corvus
I missed that clue, for which there is no excuse. — Mww
What Hume meant by that would be, do that to the silly comments and words. :nerd:I suggest you use that fact as a reason to commit them to the flames. — creativesoul
But is there any reason or evidence to suspect either is the case? Any reason not to accept that things are as they seem? Sure, many things turned out to be other than what had always been assumed. They were proven to be otherwise with evidence, math, logic. What about your wonderings?That seems reasonable to me. But you ask: "How do I know that I am perceiving a physical thing in a real world and not just dreaming or hallucinating..." If you don't know how to tell the difference, how do you know there IS a difference?
— Patterner
I know that there's a qualitative difference between the experiences I consider dreams and the experiences I consider wakefulness. I presume that the things I experience when I dream are not of external world objects. I then wonder if perhaps that the experiences I consider wakefulness are also not of external world objects. I then further wonder if there are external world objects at all. — Michael
But is there any reason or evidence to suspect either is the case? — Patterner
Any reason not to accept that things are as they seem?
I don't need reason or evidence to disprove something for which there is no reason or evidence to suspect is the case. If there is no reason or evidence to consider a proposal, I won't. If reason or evidence to consider it exists, I'll listen.But is there any reason or evidence to suspect either is the case?
— Patterner
Is there any reason or evidence to suspect that neither is the case? — Michael
Yes. Are you suggesting we believe otherwise without reason or evidence?Are you suggesting that the reason we believe in the veracity of our experiences is simply that we have no good reason to believe them false? Believing them accurate is the "default" position that should be assumed unless presented with evidence to the contrary? — Michael
Is there not in all philosophy and science an intention of truth, of objectivity, of universality of discourse? Therefore, isn't the skeptic's doubt a gesture in a certain sense that is anti-philosophical and anti-scientific? Doesn't it necessarily fall into the liar's paradox? Doubting the world would be like cutting the branch on which I am sitting, waiting for the tree to fall and not the branch. — JuanZu
Dreams naturally end. they do not last throughout the entire time. We are asleep.In which case, you will no longer be part of the conversation about how to determine what is objectively real
— Patterner
Only if you're right and our experiences are accurate. If you're wrong and our experiences are inaccurate then we might just wake up. — Michael
This is a real life example on why I don't believe in the existence of the rusty barbecue rack which has been sitting in the corner of the garden for months anymore.Still curious why anyone needs a reason to believe? Beliefs can be built on faith and thus you don't even have to have any evidence. Simply believe and go from there. — Vaskane
…..if the world is not an object, but just a mere concept, then could it be A priori…. — Corvus
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