there is a big difference between the spoken and the written language, or between the spoken and the literary language. The spoken language is often a monological communication of a message that something should be like this or like that... The literary language is never like that – it doesn’t inform, it is meaning rather than communication, it has its own existence. — javi2541997-quoting-Fosse
For the same or similar reason many people are drawing, painting, dancing, exercising, playing music, socializing etc. Some need professional help. I suppose Fosse discovered that writing is for him.Do you think this is a better way to confront suicide and fear? I mean, thanks to the act of writing by yourself? — javi2541997
So if I should use a metaphor for the action of writing, it has to be that of listening. — Fosse
I discussed with Vera Mont and @Bella fekete whether literature or the art of writing is an individualistic or collectivist act. I want to know what you think because, following Fosse's thoughts, it helped him in pure loneliness, giving him a sense of safety. He faced and overcame fear by starting to express himself in an individual language.
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Do you agree that writing is a process of approaching only ourselves? — javi2541997
This is indeed beautiful. However, I've discovered a new way to perceive suicide. When I read Mishima back in the day, I interpreted suicide as an artistic act of dying with honor, and this author genuinely romanticized it.
Suicide has always been a key component in art and literature, but a significant difference emerges between Western and Japanese culture. Fosse even felt uneasy about writing extensively on suicide, but he understood that it was a necessary topic to explore. — javi2541997
There are many suicides in my writing. More than I like to think about. I have been afraid that I, in this way, may have contributed to legitimising suicide. So what touched me more than anything were those who candidly wrote that my writing had quite simply saved their lives. — javi2541997
Do you agree that writing is a process of approaching only ourselves? — javi2541997
So he has found a unique way of carving out a form of language that is familiar to others, yet unfamiliar as written-and-literary.
It seems to me that in prose and drama, Fosse is arguing that he tries to escape himself into a way of writing which nevertheless, in a Bakhtinian way, has meaning only in multi-voiced dialogue between the writer and the reader. (He specifically contrasts poetry as a form whose meaning tends to refer only to itself) — mcdoodle
What Fosse is writing there is exactly what happens with fiction in relation to reality. No serious author is promoting suicide, not even Camus did so as he positioned it as the negative relation to his solution for the absurd. People who experience suicidal thoughts need to find good exploration of the concept they experience, it gives perspective and in almost all cases exposure to such ideas in fiction lead to calming such thoughts rather than triggering them. I've seen stuff in fiction that makes fun of suicide to the point of almost being tasteless and it still seem to help suicidal individuals overcome their negative thoughts. — Christoffer
We need more writing like his than we need overprotective uneducated anti-intellectuals stumbling around thinking they are helping other people. — Christoffer
But I think that in every expression of culture, suicide pops up, even unintentionally. — javi2541997
The tyranny of black and white thought warps and twists the gradations of reality. — Vaskane
Because it is part of the human experience. Death by sickness, death by old age, being murdered and committing suicide are constant outcomes in our human lives. — Christoffer
It has always figured in the literature, even oral tradition of self-sacrifice and self-destruction. — Vera Mont
Why? Climate may factor in, culture and a historically fatalistic disposition? — Vera Mont
Idealistic North Americans, in any case, are far more prone to denial, even of what is staring them directly in the face, than are the more realistic and pragmatic North Europeans. — Vera Mont
Then, it is understandable how some authors incorporate suicide or suicidal characters. It is natural and even more realistic than some other fictional environments, plots, dialogues, etc. Stating this doesn't endorse actual suicide but provides another perspective in an artistic way. At least, a portrayal of suicide in a story can be more relatable than a plot where characters go to Mars and come back. — javi2541997
I remember debating about this a few years ago. Even ChatGPT argues that suicide is universally frowned upon and doesn't distinguish among cultures, something that I fully disagree with. — javi2541997
Do you think that idealistic North Americans tend to avoid suicide rather than romanticize about it? — javi2541997
So suicidal characters in good writing transcends just being characters in the plot, they aren't just devices or causes for dramatic tensions or tragedy, but a communication of ideas that exist on the fringes of our experiences as people and individuals in and beyond society. — Christoffer
And it also seems that people are utterly terrified that they would start to be seduced by the idea, that they would somehow get infected by the thought and do it to themselves. — Christoffer
But I think the main part is that suicide is primarily a failure of society and the people around the person committing suicide. — Christoffer
Japan has usually set the highest standards for avoiding suicide, considering this act as an offense. — javi2541997
I thought this was a cultural phenomenon, but the government there expresses concern about the numbers. — javi2541997
Some see ending life as suitable when it is not worth living, rather than continuing until death 'approaches us' due to age or sickness. — javi2541997
Is it a failure of society rather than the sloppiness of the state? While citizens who die from terrorism or gender violence are recognized as failures of the state, those who die by suicide are not given the same status. This surely happens because of the significant influence of religion in the state over centuries. A suicidal person tends to be considered as 'sick,' a mad person. Generally, the only backup is to provide pills to people with suicidal thoughts, creating an atmosphere of perpetual disorder with reality, instead of sitting down and listening to what is going on with this person. — javi2541997
I discussed with Vera Mont and @Bella fekete whether literature or the art of writing is an individualistic or collectivist act. — javi2541997
Do you agree that writing is a process of approaching only ourselves? — javi2541997
We have established a sense that not having a purpose for living is normal because Millennials are screwed, etc. — javi2541997
Reasons for suicide are similarly diverse. Some people are just fed up with living. Some people are unwell. Some are unable to deal with trauma. Some are reacting to situational factors. Suicide is one word for many situations — Tom Storm
Most people seem to write for themselves and an audience of readers they hope to acquire. — Tom Storm
do you agree it is usually based on escapism as a common factor? — javi2541997
I would not say 'audience' because I would sound arrogant. — javi2541997
After rereading your answer, I am not sure if you're actually scolding me or just disagreeing with Fosse. — javi2541997
I think this is why it is important to highlight how some writers, like Fosse, were able to confront suicide in the process of writing but may not be capable of going to a therapist and talking about it. — javi2541997
I've met several iterations of most of these over the decades. People are contradictions. — Tom Storm
sometimes confused this term with hypocrisy — javi2541997
Having a fear or inability in some aspect of your chosen field may be common. I worked with actors some years ago and most were pretty shy and fearful of public speaking. Comedians are often sour and glum. Etc. — Tom Storm
I'd say writing is a social activity that one can practice privately. In this sense it can benefit the introverted or socially isolated. — jkop
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