Lol. you know what you wrote is amazingly stupid at best and now you're just going to try to babble it away. Withdraw the comment and get it over with. Or be held to the utter moronic idea that Western societies are superior in every possible way to non-Western societies. — Baden

You're ridiculous.

You can't even agree that the value you adhere to are superior and so you make a reference to Trump and say "but he's as stupid as they come." As if that's responsive to the conversation. Of course there are bad politicians, but should a Republican become President, I think I'd persevere, as opposed to someone from Hamas becoming President.

The sweeping nature of which makes it obviously false. But I still want it admitted so and withdrawn without any BS attempts to pretend he never said that. — Baden

I did say it because I meant it. There is a moral superiority of the West to others. What's shocking is that you can't admit it.

You then inserted in your own projections to make it say something that it didn't, like no one but the West is moral and that somehow Trump is proof that America is an immoral nation.

I did say it because I meant it. There is a moral superiority of the West to others. What's shocking is that you can't admit it. — Hanover

Your claim was not limited to morality. Your claim as it is written is that the West is superior to the non-West in every possible way. Are you saying now you didn't mean that? Feel free to clarify.

Let me clarify. What I said was:

The point here is that equality is not a wedding vow, and it is worth admitting that we (meaning the West and its values) are superior to others, in terms of morality, technology, civility, and in every way possible. — Hanover

What part confuses you?

Religious brainwashing has a lot to do with this. — RogueAI

Even from the man you quoted, this is primarily about land, not about religion. Same for Israel's government, no? It's a dispute over land. A feeling of injustice is a very strong motivator, much stronger than the will to live in many cases. People, not mad people, think there are just causes worth dying for. That doesn't seem stupid to me.

It confuses me that it's so fucking stupid. Superior in every way possible would include e.g. intelligence, which would make you a racist. So you ought to get busy, stop fucking around, and withdraw or clarify.

Sam Harris, eh.

Choosing to be ruled by Hamas has led to some disastrous consequences for the Palestinians. — RogueAI

What a gross viewpoint.

So the thousands of innocent children murder by Israeli forces should have known better 17 years ago. Got it.

By that logic, the Israelis who died on October 7th were also learning some “hard” lessons for electing a terrorist government. Glad to know you’re cool with Hamas’ actions.

Land is undoubtedly part of the issue with Hamas and Palestinians. From what I've read, though, I believe the motivation of groups like Hamas to slaughter Jews and die trying is primarily religious in nature. I can be convinced otherwise. What evidence do you have?

Netanyahu's Israel, as bad as it is, is vastly superior to Hamas — RogueAI

Because they kill a thousand times more babies— but with good western values.

What a gross viewpoint.

So the thousands of innocent children murder by Israeli forces should have known better 17 years ago. Got it.

By that logic, the Israelis who died on October 7th were also learning some “hard” lessons for electing a terrorist government. Glad to know you’re cool with Hamas’ actions. — Mikie

How many German and Japanese kids died because their parents made bad decisions in the 1920's and 30's? A lot. Far more than Israel will end up killing. Innocents get killed in war. Hamas and the Palestinians should have thought about that when they went down this road.

Hamas and the Palestinians should have thought about that when they went down this road. — RogueAI

Yes, the thousands of babies should have known better. Take your racist, genocide-justifying comments to where they’ll be more accepted. Perhaps 4Chan.

Who should have won WW2, the Axis or Allies?

Superior Western intellects are truly on display here, demonstrating just how superior they really are as they find ways to justify the killing of thousands of babies. To wonder why the rest of the world might not agree with this value judgement…

:rofl:

According to you, the axis powers. I disagree, though.

Well, one of us sounds like a fanatic. I'll leave it at that.

Yeah, I’d say the one who justifies collective punishment and shrugs off the deliberate murdering of thousands of babies with “Hey, they should’ve known better.”

But yeah, better to leave your racist rantings there. Not that you could do much worse, but that we don’t have to feel so nauseated by being reminded that members of this forum hold such disgusting, callous views.

Superior in every way possible would include intelligence, — Baden

That's what this is all about?

The point here is that equality is not a wedding vow, and it is worth admitting that we (meaning the West and its values) are superior to others, in terms of morality, technology, civility, and in every way possible. — Hanover

"Every way possible" should have been limited to those things along the lines of the examples given and not included things like height, athletic ability, sexual prowess, soccer skills, big game hunting, ability to navigate the high seas on a paddleboard, prettier hair styles, and everything else that would be included in the term "every way possible."

I will now add to the end of my errant sentence "along these lines" so as to remove that confusion that I wonder if ever really existed, but it did say what it said, so you were undoubtedly correct to have responded as you did, as opposed to having limited my comment into what a reasonable person might have said.

"Every way possible" should have been limited to those things along the lines of the examples given and not included things like height, athletic ability, sexual prowess, soccer skills, big game hunting, ability to navigate the high seas on a paddleboard, prettier hair styles, and everything else that would be included in the term "every way possible." — Hanover

Nevertheless, not untrue.

Nevertheless, not untrue. — Merkwurdichliebe

I do wish to clarify that I don't think Westerners are more intelligent than non-Westerners, but I limit my comments to Western values in the sense I do in fact hold them superior to others, but not superior to all.

Thanks for clarifying.

I do wish to clarify that I don't think Westerners are more intelligent than non-Westerners, but I limit my comments to Western values in the sense I do in fact hold them superior to others, but not superior to all. — Hanover

The Israel/Hamas conflict is not west vs non-west.

Western values in the sense I do in fact hold them superior to others, but not superior to all. — Hanover

Taken as a whole, it is superior to all. What other value system has delivered such widespread prosperity and quality of life?

What other value system has delivered such widespread prosperity and quality of life? — Merkwurdichliebe

:lol:

An oldie but goodie.

An oldie but goodie. — Mikie

Indeed, the truth is always good. After all, what other value system has delivered such widespread prosperity and quality of life?

After all, what other value system has delivered such widespread prosperity and quality of life? — Merkwurdichliebe

This is a very weirdly loaded question. What is the connection between value system and quality of life? I suspect hunter gathering is the most stable long term guarantee of quality of life. But that's less a value system and more of a social/survival practice. I'm as miserable as fuck living in the UK. Loads of reasons for that. I remember in the 1980s looking at pictures of starving Ethiopians on the TV. Half of them were grinning like lunatics. Not to say starving makes you happy, obviously, but western values (whatever the hell they are) don't seem to.

The Israel/Hamas conflict is not west vs non-west. — frank

But it is. It is a living example of non-Western values clashing with Western values. Israel is trying to play by Western rules against an enemy that openly despises all Western values that do not fall strictly in line with their radical Islamist ideology. The outrage at Israel's current operation is myopic, just think of the true outrage that would be warranted if Israel went at Hamas by the rules of Hamas.

Israel is trying to play by Western rules against an enemy that openly despises all Western values that do not fall strictly in line with their radical Islamist ideology. — Merkwurdichliebe

This conflict is over a specific bit of territory, not any kind of generalised eastern vs western values thing. If it's east v west at all it is only because western colonial powers decided to confiscate and divvy up foreign countries again, cunts that we are.

the truth — Merkwurdichliebe

Lol. Please, keep them coming. This is great.

What is the connection between value system and quality of life? — bert1

By quality of life, I mean the material luxuries and comforts of modern living: like food in the grocery stores, cheap available transportation, air conditioning, electricity, reliable plumbing &c. But there are also nonmaterial qualities of life like freedom of speech, freedom of religion, freedom to peaceful assembly, freedom to do any deviant, wierd shit in the privacy of your own home, complete with right to privacy...&c, &c. These rights and liberties unquestionably enhance the quality of life for all people. . .the concept of a universal quality of life, is also a distinctly Western value.