This conflict is over a territory, not any kind of generalised eastern vs western values thing. If it's east v west at all it is only because western colonial powers decided to confiscate and divvy up foreign countries again, cunts that we are. — bert1
It is a living example of non-Western values clashing with Western values. — Merkwurdichliebe
What the everloving fuck are you talking about? — frank
Just showing how the values of Hamas differ from the values of Israel, and that the values of Israel fall closer in line with Western Liberal values than the values of Hamas do. How in the everfucking love could you disagree with that? — Merkwurdichliebe
This conflict is over a territory, not any kind of generalised eastern vs western values thing. If it's east v west at all it is only because western colonial powers decided to confiscate and divvy up foreign countries again, cunts that we are. — bert1
Which part of Hamas' attack represents something Westerners never do? — frank
The real question is: which part does not represent everything that is condemned by Western standards? — Merkwurdichliebe
Westerners attack shit all the time. In fact, it's just something humans do. — frank
You're handing me a bucket of bullshit to sort through. No thanks. — frank
Superior Western intellects are truly on display here, demonstrating just how superior they really are as they find ways to justify the killing of thousands of babies. To wonder why the rest of the world might not agree with this value judgement… — Mikie
Getting ornery there, that is a typical veiled antisemitic response that I wouldn't expect from you. Easy big feller. — Merkwurdichliebe
In my view cultural assimilation stamps out identity, but pogroms or discrimination in general don't. On the contrary, even if you wouldn't otherwise care about it, you are quite "well informed" about your identity of being of a lower dubious status when you are a target of a pogrom or discrimination. And the memory of that discrimination just comes to be your heritage, part of your identity.Indeed. But it does get into the differences at stake here. Jewish identity has tried to have been stamped out. — schopenhauer1
Not a niqab, predecessor to the Covid mask? — Merkwurdichliebe
No, air power does work. Tactical air power works. Even strategic bombing can work. Yet the pre-war ideas of bombing civilian targets to quicken the ending of the war or make the home front collapse don't work. Have been tried on several occasions.But Mikie, what of the thousands of German and Japanese children who died in WWII bombing campaigns? A horrible crime, right? Clearly the allies should have never used air power. — BitconnectCarlos
Bombing civilians can give political success when people cry for revenge. Yet this kind of revenge doesn't work as it just hardens the will to fight in many cases as it shows how cruel the enemy is and how existential the war is. — ssu
The Norwegian government is sending naval officers to the Red Sea, to help secure civilian merchant navigation after another Norwegian ship was attacked on Monday. The attack brings Israel’s war on the radical Palestinian organization Hamas in Gaza closer to home, after a string of demonstrations in Oslo against it.
----
Members of the Houthi militia in Yemen, which supports the Palestinians, have been launching drone attacks on ships believed to be tied to Israel. The Bergen-based owner of the tanker MV Swan Atlantic claimed the militia was wrong, however, in reportedly believing its vessel was operated by a firm with ties to Israel.
“We have no connections to Israel, neither on the ownership- nor operating side,” Øystein Elgan of Inventor Chemical Tankers told Norwegian Broadcasting (NRK) after the vessel was struck Monday morning. “The vessel wasn’t heading for Israel either.”
Inventor Chemical Tankers is owned by the Norwegian investment firm Rieber & Søn AS in Bergen and was carrying a cargo of biodiesel when a Houthi drone rammed a water tank and punched a hole in the vessel. Elgan said no crew members on board the vessel were killed or injured, and it was being escorted to the closest safe harbour by an American naval vessel.
A Houthi spokesman, meanwhile, insisted to NRK that the Swan Atlantic was bound for Israel, and stood by its information “100 percent.”
It’s the second Norwegian ship to be attacked off Yemen, after the chemical tanker Strinda was hit on December 12. The Strinda is also owned by a Bergen-based firm, J Ludwig Mowinckels Rederi, and the Norwegian Shipowners Association is sounding the alarms since around 40 Norwegian-owned vessels are in the area. Several other shipping firms, including Mærsk of Denmark, have also been hit including also a British vessel on Monday, the MCS Clara. Reuters reported that none of its crew was hurt either, but that doesn’t console the shipowners or their crews.
“The attacks underscore the ever-more serious situation in the Red Sea,” said Harald Solberg, leader of the shipowners’ organization, Rederiforbundet. He said more shipowners and operators will choose to avoid the Red Sea and Suez Canal, now that the situation there is so tense. That in turn will disrupt international trade, since the only alternative is to sail around Africa.
But Mikie, what of the thousands of German and Japanese children who died in WWII bombing campaigns? A horrible crime, right? — BitconnectCarlos
Clearly the allies should have never used air power. — BitconnectCarlos
Best to be pacifists and let the Germans have their way. I'm no child killer. — BitconnectCarlos
Well, some estimates put the B-29 program to have been even more costly than the Manhattan project, so how much would a transatlantic bomber project or a von Braun's rocket that would have been the first intercontinental missile used up those precious warfighting resources Germany had? Hitler surely would have used them, if given the option. Just look at how the superb Me 262 was made into being a fighter bomber!Germany had to devote precious resources to defending their skies and that, of course, came at the expense of their forces on the Eastern Front. — RogueAI
By all means use air power. Just don't use air power to kill innocent women or children. German, Japanese, or otherwise. — Mikie
If a bombing campaign is to be undertaken, civilians will die. — BitconnectCarlos
Some methods result in more civilian deaths than others, but none result in zero. — BitconnectCarlos
Question: would you think that bombing New York, Boston and Washington DC with few of such bombers would have made a real difference? — ssu
And I'm sure you know by now that in Gaza the line between civilian and military is essentially nil. Hamas does not wear uniforms. — BitconnectCarlos
There's a difference, for example, between a targeted missile strike on an apartment that kills an enemy militant and also an innocent civilian from the apartment next door and simply bombing the apartment block and killing 100 innocent civilians and the militant. — Baden
Hamas have used a similar argument — Baden
If the line is really literally nil for you and you also support eliminating the military then you would be saying you support elimintaing 1.5 million people — Baden
Get involved in philosophical discussions about knowledge, truth, language, consciousness, science, politics, religion, logic and mathematics, art, history, and lots more. No ads, no clutter, and very little agreement — just fascinating conversations.