• YiRu Li
    121
    Inequality is the root cause of dishonesty.
    e.g. good <-> evil, rich <-> poor, beautiful <-> ugly, young <-> old, high <-> low, correct <-> wrong, have <-> not have, strong <-> weak, left <-> right, subjective <-> objective, absolute <-> relative, Life <-> Death

    For each unequal situation, we can find a dishonest example in daily life.
    e.g. violence: strong <-> weak, hypocrite: correct <-> wrong.

    This world is not equal and we can’t change it externally.

    But there is a way to deal with the inequalities and be peaceful & honest.
    What is the way? The Identity of Contraries?


    -----------------------------------------------------

    Chinese medicine says about 5,000 years ago,
    everyone lived one hundred years without showing the usual signs of aging.

    I read the following paragraph which describes the society of that time.
    I don't quite understand it, so I started this philosophy discussion.
    Chinese medicine is always studied together with philosophy.

    -The Yellow Emperor's Classic of Medicine (Maoshing Ni) , chapter 1-
    The accomplished ones of ancient times advised people to guard themselves against zei feng, disease-causing factors. On the mental level, one should remain calm and avoid excessive desires and fantasies, recognizing and maintaining the natural purity and clarity of the mind. When internal energies are able to circulate smoothly and freely, and the energy of the minds is not scattered, but is focused and concentrated, illness and disease can be avoided.

    Previously, people led a calm and honest existence, detached from undue desire and ambition; they lived with an untainted conscience and without fear. They were active, but never depleted themselves. Because the lived simply, these individuals knew contentment, as reflected in their diet of basic but nourishing foods and attire that was appropriate to the season but never luxurious. Since they were happy with their position in life, they did not feel jealousy or greed. They had compassion for others and were helpful and honest, free from destructive habits. They remained unshakable and unswayed by temptations, and they were able to stay centered even when adversity arose. They treated others justly, regardless of their level of intelligence or social position.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GP4ouNyTd0I
    in this video 30:45, 34:58, 35:50, the Greek island people and researchers said their secret to live long & healthy is to have an equal mind and society.

    Please check this guy's picture in this interview at 12:20.
    He is 104 years old and still looks young!
    https://youtu.be/BIWibXSOfNg?si=GwYMgUoiDwpRcaB_

    -----------------------------------------------------------------------
    —-Chuang Tzŭ (Giles)/Chapter 2, The Identity of Contraries—

    **Belong to:**
    The white horse and the black horse both fall under the category of horses.
    In essence, both the white and black horses are horses, highlighting their similarity.

    **As a whole thing:**
    In one scenario, a monkey receives 3 fruits in the morning and 4 fruits in the evening,
    while in another scenario, it gets 4 fruits in the morning and 3 in the evening.
    Regardless of the variation, both situations result in the monkey acquiring a total of 7 fruits a day, establishing the equivalence of both scenarios.

    **Existence:**
    Nothing on Earth existed in the past, and nothing will persist in the future.
    Throughout time, only the universe or heaven endures.
    Consequently, everything on Earth shares the same transitory nature.

    **Compare to infinite space or time:**
    When viewed from outer space, everything on Earth appears minute.
    Similarly, considering the expansive timeframe from the beginning of the universe until now, everything on Earth virtually exists within an infinitesimally small span.
    In this context, everything on Earth is alike, as each entity is extremely small or exists for an exceedingly brief period.

    ----------------------------------------------------
    Previous question for Inequality & dishonesty.
    https://thephilosophyforum.com/discussion/14828/what-characterizes-the-mindset-associated-with-honesty
  • tim wood
    9.2k
    Is your question how to be the same in a world of difference?
    I have a word for you, aufheben, rendered in English as sublation. For you it means how to remain/maintain the same by changing, in response to difference which in changing you make the same. Beyond that I suspect you already know the answer to your own question.

    In terms of an institutional answer, act in accordance with both deontological and Christian principles - not necessarily to be a Christian because that is a different problem - or any other system of practices based either wholly or in part on some version of the golden rule.

    And of course you shall have to decide what you mean by "same" and "difference," because difference is always in the same, and the same in difference.

    I believe the monk achieves all of this by eating a dinner no larger than his fist, and then rubbing his belly in satisfied contentment.
  • Vera Mont
    4.2k
    What is the way?YiRu Li

    The acceptance and appreciation of individuality.
  • L'éléphant
    1.5k
    The acceptance and appreciation of individuality.Vera Mont
    This will work if we stop listening to the publicity and marketing.
  • 180 Proof
    15.3k
    Inequality is the root cause of dishonesty.YiRu Li
    I disagree. "Dishonesty" is caused by intelligence; it is often an effective social, business or political tactic.

    This world is not equal and we can’t change it externally.
    The world is not static, it is entropic and chaotic. Because we are inseparable from the world, we can only slow or accelerate, not stop, its changes.

    But there is a way to deal with the inequalities [changes] and be peaceful & honest.
    What is the way?
    My guess: scientific understanding × nonzero sum practices.
  • Mww
    4.8k


    Aren’t those just complementary pairs?

    Are inequality/dishonesty complementary in the same degree or manner?
  • YiRu Li
    121
    From history, around B.C. 600, iron was introduced to China.
    Then it caused the gap between rich and poor.
    States started war with each other, to get more power and richness.
    It collapses the original balanced moral system.
    End up the first emperor burned 3,000 years of books, to make people not able to think.
    So people could not be against him.

    Adam and Eve ate the Apple, so they know the 'Good & Evil', then it started the beginning of sin?

    What makes people distinguish?
    Perception? Cognition?
    What makes inequality dramatically trigger a human's mind, to a level it's hard to get rid of it?
  • Vera Mont
    4.2k
    What makes inequality dramatically trigger a human's mind, to a level it's hard to get rid of it?YiRu Li

    The selfish gene. In nature, animals that have some advantage over others of their species succeed at living longer and having more offspring than the others. This means that their [aggressive, ambitious] genes are passed on to more new members of the species. This is offset by the need to fit into a social group for the survival of those offspring, so that friendly and co-operative genes are also passed on. In humans, both traits are present and the notorious big brain serves both - not in the same proportion in each specimen. Everyone desires some advantage, some way to be better, smarter, faster, stronger, more talented, more charming or more beautiful than others of of our species. But we're not all willing to pay the same price or make the same amount of effort or take the same risks to achieve it.
  • jgill
    3.8k
    Everyone desires some advantage, some way to be better, smarter, faster, stronger, more talented, more charming or more beautiful than others of of our species. But we're not all willing to pay the same price or make the same amount of effort or take the same risks to achieve itVera Mont

    :up: :up:

    But there is a way to deal with the inequalities and be peaceful & honest.YiRu Li

    The Meek shall inherit the Earth
  • Wayfarer
    22.3k
    Democratic socialism would be one answer. Which Americans tend to falsely denigrate as ‘communism’.
  • YiRu Li
    121
    I guess insist on one of them or focus on distinguishing them that cause issues. or Manipulate it.
  • Vera Mont
    4.2k
    The Meek shall inherit the Earthjgill

    what's left of it, once the Bold are done striving
  • YiRu Li
    121


    Good points!
    I guess it's the inequality that triggers the human's mind most profoundly.
    But we may not be aware of it.
    We may think it's other things.
    eg. 'have' kids <-> 'not have' kids.

    Or even if we can think everything is equal, we still need to follow the existing reality of inequality rules to deal with the relationship with others.
    e.g. Is getting a 0 score in the exam the same as getting 100 scores, for a young person?

    But to deal with the root cause of the sad mind and chaos of the world.
    Inequality is the thing to discuss.
    Philosophy may be the best efficiently way, to practice our mind to get enlightenment on inequality topics.
    It's good to get it a try and see.
  • Philosophim
    2.6k
    Its a very good question. What I like to consider is first a floor, or minimum standard for a decent human life. What does that entail within a society?

    Second, what is that society capable of? Is it still a hunger gatherer society? Does it have modern infrastructure? What is the basic minimum technology needed to perform at this floor within that society?

    Third, what is the minimum expected output of work for a human to obtain these things? Such a minimum should not be taxing to the point where the individual suffers undue calculable harm vs the benefits it brings them. In a hunter gatherer society, hunting poses risks, but is necessary to meet the minimum standards of being able to eat.

    Fourth, what is the individual capable of doing within society? Are they disabled? Weak? Smart? Strong? We should expect such people to be able to contribute with their strengths, and not push them to work in ways that constantly expose their weaknesses.

    As a starting point, I believe a society should work with these ideas in mind. Of course, as others work past these minimum requirements and further technology and outcomes, the floor will rise and things will need to be readjusted. The invention of a wheel chair allows a person who cannot walk new mobility. Medication for psychiatric disorders and let a person function normally. The invention of the internet allows new social connections and immediately accessible knowledge.

    Because of this, a maximum ceiling of benefits should only be considered in the case where this prevents the floor from rising, or pushes the floor down for others. Other than that, we need people who push past the floor because it is the only way we rise as a species.
  • LuckyR
    480
    Well, perfect equality is stasis, which essentially equals death. No, I prefer inequality. That's what makes life interesting. Everyone is better and worse than others at something.
  • hypericin
    1.6k
    This is a very broad view of "inequality".

    What you call "inequality", I call "perception", and "thought".

    When your eyes can pick A apart from B, that is perception.

    When your mind can play with A and B, put A in these conceptual buckets, B in those, combine them, pull them apart, that is thought.

    Eyes that cannot see and brains that cannot think cannot do these things. The only way to escape inequality, to return to a "oneness" where differences melt away, is to die.
  • jgill
    3.8k
    The Meek shall inherit the Earth — jgill

    what's left of it, once the Bold are done striving
    Vera Mont

    One of my old outdoor colleagues once said of my rock climbing,
    He's not bold . . . but he doesn't need to be.

    The meek are not necessarily the weak.
  • Vera Mont
    4.2k
    The meek are not necessarily the weak.jgill

    And the bold are not necessarily strong.
    For rock climbing, you need physical strength and courage. For material success in the world, you need high self-regard and the will to seize opportunities.
  • Hanover
    12.8k
    But there is a way to deal with the inequalities and be peaceful & honest.
    What is the way?
    YiRu Li

    An ethical system.
  • YiRu Li
    121
    Amor Fati, and Yea Saying?... From Nietzsche's Joyful Wisdom Aphorism 276:

    "I have wished for myself today, and what thought first crossed my mind this year, a thought which ought to be the basis, the pledge and the sweetening of all my future life! I want more and more to perceive the necessary characters in things as the beautiful: I shall thus be one of those who beautify things. Amor fati: let that henceforth be my love! I do not want to wage war with the ugly. I do not want to accuse, I do not want even to accuse the accusers. Looking aside, let that be my sole negation! And all in all, to sum up: I wish to be at any time hereafter only a yea-sayer!"
    Vaskane

    Interesting! What happened to Nietzsche, so he made this conclusion/Aphorism? What did he observe?
  • YiRu Li
    121
    An ethical system.Hanover

    Good point!

    Will an ethical system create more inequality, more distinction on correct <-> wrong?

    Adam and Eve ate the Apple, so they know the 'Good & Evil', which started the beginning of sin?
    Then they found out they were naked, so God made clothes for them.

    I guess an ethical system is the 'clothes', which is a prevention/temporary solution.
    We still need to fix the root cause 'the Apple', which changed the way Adam and Eve look at things.
    How to turn our mind back to the original / nature, to antidote 'the Apple'?
    I guess that's why philosophy discusses dealing with inequality or the way to see things.
  • Lionino
    2.7k
    What is the way?YiRu Li

    Human instrumentality

    evangelion-neon-genesis-ending-explained_uz3h.jpg
  • jgill
    3.8k
    Years ago when George Bush was asked who his favorite philosopher was, he replied (after a bit of thought), Jesus Christ.

    One can draw all sorts of conclusions from George's choice, negative or positive, but His teachings provide a way of life that could mitigate all those inequalities. Just a thought.
  • boagie
    385
    There is no such thing as equality, there is no equality between individuals, between the sexes between you and your employer, between you and your neighbor. We acknowledge our common humanity, and our mutual interest in its common dignity, there is equality only in this sense.
  • YiRu Li
    121
    Years ago when George Bush was asked who his favorite philosopher was, he replied (after a bit of thought), Jesus Christ.

    One can draw all sorts of conclusions from George's choice, negative or positive, but His teachings provide a way of life that could mitigate all those inequalities.
    jgill

    Inequality as a philosophy topic has its history background.
    3,000 years ago, silk road trading was already very popular.
    But when the merchants passed the silk road, a big challenge was that people who lived along the silk road would rob the merchants.
    All big civilizations along the silk road used strong military and education to deal with the loot issue.
    Merchants (Jews) supported and were philosophy missionaries on silk road was already very popular from 3,000 years ago.

    I guess Jesus was hired by those missionary merchants at his age 13, to help merchants do mission works all along the silk road.
    From Chinese history and culture influence of the silk road, we can see Jesus was a superstar on the silk road!

    I guess when Jesus taught people on the silk road, he used the local existing education materials, which at least already had 1,000 years of history.
    (Ancient China had a rule: for the princes of the silk road countries, they must come to China and study in a Chinese university as diplomatic hostages.)

    Inequality is a very old philosophy topic in China.
    Ancient Chinese philosophers said they got this idea from their old teachers.
    Their old teachers said they got their idea from even older ancient teachers.
    (I actually guess many Chinese philosophers were Jews.)
    So it's hard to say Jesus quoted Chinese philosophers, or ancient Chinese philosophers quoted Jesus, if Jesus existed a long time ago.
  • LuckyR
    480
    Years ago when George Bush was asked who his favorite philosopher was, he replied (after a bit of thought), Jesus Christ.

    One can draw all sorts of conclusions from George's choice, negative or positive, but His teachings provide a way of life that could mitigate all those inequalities. Just a thought.


    Well, it's a politically expedient answer for a politician who doesn't follow the subject of philosophy speaking to an audience who doesn't know of any philosophers.
  • YiRu Li
    121
    There is no such thing as equality, there is no equality between individuals, between the sexes between you and your employer, between you and your neighbor. We acknowledge our common humanity, and our mutual interest in its common dignity, there is equality only in this sense.boagie

    :up:
  • Tom Storm
    9k
    I guess Jesus was hired by those missionary merchants at his age 13, to help merchants do mission works all along the silk road.YiRu Li

    The spread of Christianity along the Silk Road likely occurred through the efforts of early Christian communities, missionaries, and traders who carried the teachings of Jesus with them as they traveled. There is certainly no reason to think that a Jeshua Ben Joseph ever taught outside of Judea. It has not been established that Jesus was a real person and the gospels were written anonymously many years, decades, after the events. The Mormons beleive that Jesus settled in the Americas after the resurrection. Mythological figures can do anything.

    Inequality is the root cause of dishonesty.YiRu Li

    I disagree unless you mean that inequality is caused by dishonesty. Unless you mean that rich people dishonestly help keep the poor in their place through measures like not paying tax and disparaging public services.

    This world is not equal and we can’t change it externally.YiRu Li

    What does this mean? I would have thought that robust social policy (an external approach) is central in building a more equal society.

    Everyone desires some advantage, some way to be better, smarter, faster, stronger, more talented, more charming or more beautiful than others of of our species. But we're not all willing to pay the same price or make the same amount of effort or take the same risks to achieve it.Vera Mont

    I'm not sure 'effort' comes into people's biological and social advantages - position, IQ beauty, charm, etc. No matter how hard most people try, they won't ever be George Clooney. It's not always possible to work your way out of disadvantage.

    Many people are simply dealt a bad set of cards. I do not believe that there is much they can do without some external power (society/government) assisting them. I have had many advantages and privileges in my life. None I worked particularly hard for. It's largely a function of being born in the right zip code.
  • YiRu Li
    121
    The spread of Christianity along the Silk Road likely occurred through the efforts of early Christian communities, missionaries, and traders who carried the teachings of Jesus with them as they traveled. There is certainly no reason to think that a Jeshua Ben Joseph ever taught outside of Judea. It has not been established that Jesus was a real person and the gospels were written anonymously many years, decades, after the events. The Morons beleive that Jesus settled in the Americas after the resurrection. Mythological figures can do anything.Tom Storm

    Good questions!
    If you are a philosophy teacher who teaches dealing with 'Famous <-> Anonymous' inequality,
    what will you do to teach it?

    A big issue to historically prove Jesus anything is: for the philosophers who taught inequality in ancient times, they would focus on removing 'Famous <-> Anonymous' inequality.
    The way they teach 'Famous <-> Anonymous'  is: They will do many amazing things and be super influential for thousands of years. 
    But they don't let people know they did it.

    If we study the history of those inequality teaching philosophers, we'll find out sometimes they on purpose hide the history evidence.
    They want people who want to know the truth to search for it themselves.
    But for the general public or the people who are not qualified to know, they'll hide it.

    So a master only has a few disciples. 
    For some secret knowledge, a teacher only lets those few disciples know.
    Not everyone deserves true knowledge.

    But if anyone says they are very sure of Jesus' things, we need to doult.
    Since it is impossible to be very sure, in a situation he must already destroy history evidence himself. For teaching 'Famous <-> Anonymous'.
    But we can search for the truth. Philosophy teachers like us to search.
  • YiRu Li
    121


    btw, Chinese authentic civilization has no 'religion' concept or word in language, as western culture.
    Things that were taught on the silk road at least from 3,000 years ago are in education or philosophy form.
    The silk road crossed many very different civilizations and cultures.
    I can only say I understand the Chinese part.
    Only the gospel of Matthew is more related to the silk road around China.
    Other gospels belong to other civilizations on the silk road, and I'm not sure I understand the culture background behind it.

    It's not surprising, for a different audience, using different languages and teaching materials that they are familiar with. right?
  • Tom Storm
    9k
    Oops, I typed Morons for Mormons. Fixed. Apologies to our latter day saint friends.
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