Try to entertain the fact that the free press in America is not free, and being subject to it you just might be being manipulated. This is always a danger no matter what country one is focused upon. Opinion is formed with the info one is exposed to, if you do not hear the world community voice, you can only agree with what they are feeding you.

You do not seem to be aware of the global power shifting away from America as a unipolar power, the goal of much of the world in a multipolar world, one more infused with a cooperative nature rather than subjugation — boagie

A multipolar order based on cooperation would certainly be novel. So far, the default state has usually been more or less open hostility and frequent war.

I could not agree more, but then colonialism has never ceased to exist, the Americans just took over from the British. This is really what it is all about, the former colonial countries still do not wish to give up their economic colonies, and America still wants to govern the world.

It is recorded history, it all started with the reunification of Germany and America's promise to Russia that NATO would not move one inch towards the Russian border. It is not propaganda, its recorded history. The Russians are not the bad guys here, they are just interested in protecting their sovereignty, it comes down to everyone having a right to protect themselves from outside aggression.

The Russians are not the bad guys here, they are just interested in protecting their sovereignty, it comes down to everyone having a right to protect themselves from outside aggression. — boagie

Protecting yourself from outside aggression by invading and annexing your neighbour. So the aggression is then inside?

Don't you have some other forum to bombard with your ridiculous propaganda?

But, let's say America has some good policies ... does that excuse leading Ukraine to war and then having Ukraine sacrifice so many Ukrainian lives for American (elite) perceived interests, on false pretences? — boethius

If Ukraine really would be making the sacrifice only for American (elite) perceived interests, then I guess they would have folded even quicker than the Afghan army did to the Taleban. And Zelensky would have boarded that plane to fly to safety... just like the Afghan leader did.

But it seems what the little people, the Europeans or here the Ukrainians think, seems not to matter for some.

As for the war "not being lost" yet, we discussed, you and me, some length at the start of the conflict of how Ukraine has, based on information available to us, essentially zero chance of victory against the Russians. — boethius

And many Western analysts gave essentially zero chance of Ukrainians stopping the Russian Juggernaut in a conventional fight from taking the what they want.

There's a very wise saying in Finland about Russia: Russia is never so powerful as it's depicted and also never so weak as it's portrayed.

So, since that time has slipped away and hundreds of thousands of lives have as well, have you seen since this secret thing that could deliver Ukraine victory? — boethius

Yes, if Europeans would take really seriously the situation and make it about countering the Russian attack, not just assisting Ukraine so that it doesn't falter totally. And then make true with those promises that they made at the start of the conflict. Basically only Poland has taken the situation seriously. (And the Baltic States, but of course their assistance is quite little, naturally.)

I think your just being an asshole, the recorded history is there to read, very very hard not to understand what is going on, but you manage don't you.

I'm not the one justifying an invasion.

So, in a nutshell, that is the sum of your understanding. Russia invaded Ukraine, and you are quite happy with that profound understanding are you. Well, it is simple I will give you that, and extremely moronic.

Life is like a box of chocolates isn't it Echarmion ? You've got real depth of understanding, it's bloody overwhelming. You really should be ashamed, can't do that, I'll be embarrassed for you.

Kicking off 2024, Sauli Niinistö and Oleksiy Danilov commented on the Ukrainian situation. As you'd expect, the outgoing Finnish president was measured and non-inflammatory (unless you're Putin perhaps), the head of the Ukrainian National Security and Defense less so. Their messages overlap, with some concerning (albeit not new) implications:

In Ukraine, the front has been almost stationary for a long time, but the war is in constant motion. It is fought on battlefields where every day claims its victims. The civilian population is not protected either.

I believe that it is not so much due to fatigue or lack of will. A more serious theme is ensuring the ability to help in the long term, sufficient resources. Europe must wake up.

Investing in weapons production is not necessary just to be able to provide the help that is needed. It is needed to ensure that Europe is strong, not for war, but for peace.

Russia is never as strong as it appears to be, and never as weak as it appears to be. Russia's intention to defeat Ukraine in a few weeks failed, as the bravery of the Ukrainians overcame the onslaught.
— Sauli Niinistö · Jan 1, 2024

Only the systematic, consistent and methodical destruction of putin's fascist formation is the only guarantee of security for Ukraine and the world, and the absence of a missile threat to peaceful cities. Give Ukraine weapons, and we will bury this piece of...
We have fought and will continue to fight, no matter how many missiles are flying in our sky. There is no force that can stop us in our fight to revenge all 514 murdered Ukrainian children, fallen defenders, and every innocent Ukrainian soul tortured.
We will pay off a hundredfold!
We thank the defenders of the Ukrainian sky and rescuers, doctors and power engineers, everyone who has stood up to russian terrorist attacks! — Oleksiy Danilov · Jan 2, 2024

The Kremlin's ongoing moves have created much animosity on the ground.

Why, I had no idea you were so open-minded. The problem began with the unification of Germany, which was an agreement between all the allied countries under the protection and guidance of America. It was agreed to by Russia as well, on the condition that NATO did not move any further east towards Russia. This was agreed to by America, stating we will not move one inch closer to the borders of Russia. They lied, and soon began their advance toward the Russian border. With each country America took into its fold moving closer, they also placed nuclear warheads on the soil of these countries. Starting to get the picture? — boagie

That is simply false. No nuclear weapons have been deployed in new NATO members:

https://www.cfr.org/in-brief/nuclear-weapons-europe-mapping-us-and-russian-deployments

So much for your knowledge of history.

So much for your knowledge of history. — Jabberwock

If you're going to take this kind of attitude you should at least be aware that the Cuba Crisis erupted over Jupiter missiles being stationed in Turkey.

So pointing out an glaring historical mistake from someone insisting on the importance of history is an 'attitude'? Right... And I am quite aware of how the Cuban Crisis began, that is why his mistake is so glaring.

No nuclear weapons have been deployed in new NATO members: — Jabberwock

This is blatantly an incorrect statement.

So at least know your history if you are going to attack others on not knowing theirs.

The present war started around Feb 27, 2014 when the Kremlin initiated grabbing Crimea; hardly a shot was fired. A direct pretext ("neither evil nor ignorant") was:

Protesters opposed what they saw as widespread government corruption and abuse of power, the influence of oligarchs, police brutality, and human rights violations.^(29)(30) Repressive anti-protest laws fuelled further anger.⁽²⁹⁾ — Revolution of Dignity (Wikipedia)

As mentioned in the parallel thread (now moved here), part of these efforts were about shedding the shackles of the dominant (regressing) northern neighbor, whom you'll notice have some of those same problems the Euromaidan protests were about. Protests/assembly have more or less been stomped out by the Kremlin. The Ukrainians are trying while being bombed. The Kremlin orders the bombing and their trying is on another path. (Pick your poison?)



Observed, documented. The supposed dire threat to Russia is to the Kremlin's (authoritarian) control/influence, not to democracy transparency freedom, not to Russian farmers. Sauli Niinistö mentioned some implications in his New Year's speech, which don't really look good.

This is blatantly an incorrect statement.

So at least know your history if you are going to attack others on not knowing theirs. — Tzeentch

As usual, you jump into the discussion with as little understanding as possible...

In the quote I have given boagle clearly referred to new NATO members AFTER the unification of Germany and so did I.

EXCELLENT POST!

, right, this is US colonialism. :lol:

, known nuclear weaponry placements as of ≈ Oct 16, 2022. Belarus (bordering Latvia Lithuania Poland Ukraine Russia) has reportedly received nuclear weaponry from Russia since. :scream:

If Putin's Russia were to assimilate a fifth of Ukraine, then their NATO-phobic argument would continue to apply to the remaining four-fifths of Ukraine just the same. If Putin's Russia was to assimilate all of Ukraine, then Putin's logic could equally be raised vice versa by Moldova Poland Romania Hungary Slovakia (Oct 13, 2022; Nov 26, 2022), and hence the EU. Open-ended, perpetual. — Sep 17, 2023

Keep up promoting authoritarian regimes (and reciting their propaganda). ;)


Hmm... Not wasting any time...

Mariupol City Council

Videos of Putin and the blockade of Leningrad: what Mariupol children will be taught during the occupation

The occupiers systematically continue to instill their ideology in the children of Mariupol. In schools, they hold "Conversations about the important", murderers are called "heroes", and Russian textbooks are brought to the libraries of educational institutions.

The so-called "Ministry of Education and Science of the Donetsk People's Republic" has already issued a plan of "educational measures" for 2024. They plan to "educate" children by showing video recordings of meetings between the Russian dictator and international criminal Putin with students.

They also plan to tell the students about the liberation of the besieged Leningrad from the fascists. However, they forget to tell about the blockade of Mariupol, which the Russians carried out in the spring of 2022.

Attempts to distort history and reality run into the memory of the people of Mariupol, who personally know who and what was done to their city for almost three months. The truth will surely win!
— Mariupol City Council · Jan 2, 2024

Only the blind cannot see the evil of America and Israel at this time, can you not afford a white cane.

You truly are naive! There are at least one hundred nuclear weapons, American weapons, in about five different NATO countries, it has been said that Ukraine already has some, a least tactical nuclear weapons. What the fuck do you think this is all about? NATO is on Russia's border; Russia is not on NATO'S border. The world is changing, and you're on the wrong side of history. Watch it unfold, even if you cannot presently grasp it.

https://www.nti.org/analysis/articles/nato-nuclear-disarmament/

The link yourself has provided shows that there are no nuclear weapons in the countries that joined after the unification of Germany. Your previous claim is false.

Your current claims are not only false, but just silly: you say that NATO is bordering Russia, but Russia is not bordering NATO. That is logically incoherent.

Russia has deployed nukes to Belarus, which is very much bordering Poland, a NATO country. Moreover, Russia has routinely deployed nuclear weapons to Kaliningrad, which also borders Poland (and allows Russia to easily reach most of Western Europe):
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-russia-nato-missiles/russia-deploys-iskander-nuclear-capable-missiles-to-kaliningrad-ria-idUSKBN1FP21Y/

In short: you clearly have no idea what you are talking about.

You have a combination of ignorance and arrogance which if common enough is a threat to us all. Do you read, or have you read any recent history of how this situation developed? If you want to know about European countries with American nuclear weapons do some more googling. Tell me how this came to be, I am all ears. As to the faulty logic, Ukraine was not yet in NATO, and had not acquired hopefully American nuclear weapons, but that was to come. Americans have the white hats, and the evil Russians have the black hats, how can one get confused!

, did you ignore my comments on purpose? They were responses to two of your comments (this, this) plus about promoting authoritarian regimes (maybe you are genuinely anti-democracy).

^{(responding according to a known script gives the impression that your comments are somewhat prepackaged, somewhat indicative of knowingly spreading propaganda)}

You have made a specific claim that was quite easy to prove false. As you are obviously unable to support your claims with any evidence, you are reduced to 'google it' and personal attacks. And no, Americans are far from being the good guys, however, this does not make Russia any better.

Hi Jorndoe,

I take it you believe that you live in a democracy, your American, right? You believe the president that the people elect runs the country, the president answers to no higher power? It is time for an evolutionary change, people have the right to have the government they choose, and if you believe the above, you're just a product of the powers that really do run the country. That way they get to stay in the shadows, and your entertained by the two-party system. Speaking of dictatorships, what do you think America has been doing globally, was there ever a kinder country-- lol!! Your countries cottage industry is making war, overt and covert, that's real violence. America has been making economic war on Cuba for over sixty years. The United Nations took a vote on ending the American blockade, and all almost unanimously voted on ending it, except for two votes, America and Israel.

The rest of the world does not see your country as you do, it has been a blight on humanity since World War Two. The BRICS is an alternative to the mindset of colonial thinking, and has the support basically of the entire Eastern hemisphere, they want a multipolar world not a unipolar world with America dictating, subjugating and enslaving weaker countries. Much is done overtly and covertly including merciless economic warfare. The world has had enough, and they are drawing a line in the sand. While America has been bullying with it superpower, its super military encircling China with military bases, that other part of the world has been preparing, and that my friend is the summation of their preparation, it is TODAY. If the general belief across the board here is that America is a virtuous democracy, I am probably not up to making any headway here.

THE BRICS FOREVER, THE END OF COLONIALISM!

What is my claim that is so easily proven wrong, please enlighten me.

You have claimed that the countries accepted into NATO after the unification of Germany have nukes 'on their soil'.

You don't really understand what the BRICS are, I am guessing you are not from a country that is part of it. It is a forum spearheaded by Brazil — which is American if you did not know —, not an alliance, not an economic block. It is completely powerless as an entity. Two of the members in fact hate each other — India and China —, and the other members mostly do not care about each other.
BRICS has been around for many many years now. The fact that people have picked up on it last year is just a result of news sensationalism that fools fall for.

, I've only lived in the US for ≈ half a year, it was in the past and mostly business related. Not that it matters. But you're still not answering the comments, you resumed the (known) script instead (almost verbatim). :shrug: