Chinese has 5,000 years of history.
We still can easily read any documents from 5,000 years ago.
It's not legends, it's history. — YiRu Li

Ancient documents from the near east that have become central to Western civilization tell of a six day creation and a great flood. Does their antiquity and accessibility mean those things actually happened?

Ancient documents from the near east that have become central to Western civilization tell of a six day creation and a great flood. Does their antiquity and accessibility mean those things actually happened? — Hanover

Chinese history is only 5,000 years old.
If mapping to the Bible time, it's after 'Tower of the Babel'.
Before that, it's not included in Chinese history.
So Chinese history can not support six day creation and a great flood.

But it can support that Chinese civilization was from the west.
A reformation/new civilization of the older civilizations in the west.

We can find out many old issues in the older civilization, they got reformed in the Chinese civilization.

I know when talking about inequality, in western philosophy, political philosophy is more famous.
Glad you'd like to identify it.
I'll let my friend reply to you.
He knows better about philosophy. — YiRu Li

Huh? Who is your friend?

You asked the question in your OP so you must have a definition, right? Why else would you pose the question?


You asked a question about inequality- you do not need philosophy to define it. Surely you had something in mind you can share?

He is hypericin.
We posted this question together. He is the cohost.
But we did discuss your question in the beginning.
Let's try to describe it.

He is hypericin.
We posted this question together. He is the cohost. — YiRu Li

What? A cohost? So is the OP question yours or not? Are you are real person? :wink:

If you posted the question together why did he respond to the question with this?

This is a very broad view of "inequality".

What you call "inequality", I call "perception", and "thought". — hypericin

Something seems off to me.

If you are unable to define inequality then this is a pointless conversation.

Chinese history is only 5,000 years old.
If mapping to the Bible time, it's after 'Tower of the Babel'.
Before that, it's not included in Chinese history.
So Chinese history can not support six day creation and a great flood. — YiRu Li

My point was only that because your documents indicate something happened, that doesn't mean that it actually happened, regardless of whether it comes from China or another country.

Chinese has 5,000 years of history.
We still can easily read any documents from 5,000 years ago. — YiRu Li

Time for a quick fact-check.

The earliest Chinese documents are at the earliest from 1400BC, therefore China has at most 3400 years of history. Not even close to 4000, nevermind 5000. Source.

ok, if you think so.
I agree.

Or let's back to the OP?
Which part of OP do you feel it's hard to understand?
I can try to explain to you?

Actually you are asking a good question.
It took me many many years to understand that this OP is a question.
A big issue in life.

I thought I already identified 'inequality' as

e.g. good <-> evil, rich <-> poor, beautiful <-> ugly, young <-> old, high <-> low, correct <-> wrong, have <-> not have, strong <-> weak, left <-> right, subjective <-> objective, absolute <-> relative, Life <-> Death

What? A cohost? So is the OP question yours or not? Are you are real person? :wink: Something seems off to me. — Tom Storm

I am friends with YiRu, she is quite real, and the post is completely her own. She is Taiwanese, not a native English speaker, and she can be intimidated especially by the language, and so she tries to get me involved. Hope you understand, I couldn't imagine trying to post in a forum like this in say Spanish, let alone Chinese!

Anyway, I wonder if the term "inequality" is throwing people off. This term is very suggestive of social and especially economic inequality in English, whereas I think the concept she is going for is "difference". But, that is just my take, @YiRu please feel free to respond in your own words.

For example, if we feel we are born into a rich family, it is not equal as we are born into a poor family. It is inequality. And this feeling of inequality, is the issue of the world.

I thought I already identified 'inequality' as

e.g. good <-> evil, rich <-> poor, beautiful <-> ugly, young <-> old, high <-> low, correct <-> wrong, have <-> not have, strong <-> weak, left <-> right, subjective <-> objective, absolute <-> relative, Life <-> Death — YiRu Li

Ok. So that is not about inequality. Maybe disparity of qualities/attributes?

Anyway, I wonder if the term "inequality" is throwing people off. This term is very suggestive of social and especially economic inequality in English, whereas I think the concept she is going for is "difference". — hypericin

:up: Yes. Difference. Makes more sense.

For example, if we feel getting birth in a rich family is not equal getting birth in a poor family. It is inequality. And this feeling of inequality, is the issue of the world. — YiRu Li

Now we are back to actual inequality. Answers - democratic socialism, robust social policy.

For example, if we feel getting birth in a rich family is not equal getting birth in a poor family. It is inequality. And this feeling of inequality, is the issue of the world.
— YiRu Li

Now we are back to actual inequality. Answers - democratic socialism, robust social policy. — Tom Storm

'born into a rich family or poor family' is 'inequality' to you?

How about this:
'Have' kids or 'Not Have' kids?
If a person is so sad because she can't have kids.
Is this 'have' & 'not have', 'inequality' to you or 'difference' to you?

'born into a rich family or poor family' is 'inequality' to you? — YiRu Li

Yes

[

If a person is so sad because she can't have kids.
Is this 'have' & 'not have', 'inequality' to you or 'difference' to you — YiRu Li

For me that's difference. Young and old is difference. Ugly and beautiful is difference. But one might say figuratively in English that such a difference can lead to unequal treatment and unequal experiences of life.

Economic, social and political inequality generally have social policy solutions. Being ugly in a world where beauty has clear advantages and is celebrated is probably best deal with psychologically.

Not being able to have kids? Adoption or a psychological solution.

Thanks for the clarification!

I think our OP is to deal with the unequal feeling ( or unequal treatment and unequal experiences of life ) caused by the difference.
A psychological solution by using philosophy thinking practice, which Chinese medicine is using.

e.g. poor people rob rich people.
How can we educate people, so they can be happy with their position?
As the Chinese medicine says: they were happy with their position in life, they did not feel jealousy or greed.

Of course people will develop more social policies after their mind has changed.

Does the above make sense to you?
Can I still use 'inequality' to say it?

How can we educate people, so they can be happy with their position? — YiRu Li

As someone with social justice principles I would never educate people to be happy with their situation. I wouldn't be prefer mechanisms in place through social policy to help lift people out of poverty.

Does the above make sense to you?
Can I still use 'inequality' to say it? — YiRu Li

I think you are asking several quesions bundled into one category.

For me the question you are asking involves how people manage psychologically and what the responsibility of a society is towards those on the margins and those who suffer.

As someone with social justice principles I would never educate people to be happy with their situation. I wouldn't be prefer mechanisms in place through social policy to help lift people out of poverty. — Tom Storm

Really?
I think people are poor because they didn't use their potential enough.
It's a potential issue.

Everyone is happy with their position after everyone uses their potential, that is pretty safe.

I always feel the homeless people in my neighborhood are very unhappy with themselves, so they give up their life?
Mental illness is triggered by unhappy feelings?

Maybe in different situations we need different solutions?

For me the question you are asking involves how people manage psychologically and what the responsibility of a society is towards those on the margins and those who suffer. — Tom Storm

We can discuss both.
Especially if people only remember to have policy, but forget the philosophy thinking practice to see everyone is equal.
e.g. We can see from the hunchback Su allegory.
At least 2300 years ago, China already had a social policy to give hunchback Su donations.
But people will forget the way hunchback Su sees himself as equal as others.

I think people are poor because they didn't use their potential enough.
It's a potential issue. — YiRu Li

That seems to me to be a standard right wing politics talking point which I think does disadvantaged people a substantial disservice. It's what we used to call, 'blame the victim.' The reality is society is structured to reward some people and shit on others. Many people who are poor and marginalized work very hard but never get ahead no matter how hard they try. People face barriers because of who they are. Factors such as disability, mental ill health, trauma, physical ill health, etc, require community resources and supports to overcome. You can't make them go away with right wing talking points. :wink: I say this as someone who has worked in the field of disadvantage, addiction and mental ill health for over 30 years. People die because they can't afford housing and health care.

But isn't this what all governments say? — Hanover

To my mind, governments have no power over civilization and culture, since governments are controlled by the people, and the people make civilizations and culture. Civilizations and cultures also exist for a lot longer than governments.

You may say that all those people are totally wrong about the records of history/culture etc, but that is a lot of people to be wrong. (Of course, nobody, or group of people, are 100 percent correct, and we are talking about history, so there is always some ambiguity, but I mean grey areas, not black and white. You could, as we know, say that everything is uncertain. But I am talking about what is most likely, and that is that the history of China, as it has been recorded, is as true as any history (I suppose, including what exactly we all did yesterday!)

Civilizations and cultures also exist for a lot longer than governments. — Beverley

All governments take the credit for work that came before them. All governments are in the business of fostering and restating the significance of cultural myths. And sometimes cultures hold myths above and beyond whatever government is in power. So none of what you say is inconsistent with the point made.

But I am talking about what is most likely, and that is that the history of China, as it has been recorded, is as true as any history (I suppose, including what exactly we all did yesterday!) — Beverley

Do any countries tell the truth about their past? I would doubt it. They all go with impressions and political and social expediency. And the idea that there is one accurate account of history is itself farcical.

But really, you would need to take each truth claim from history and hold it up against scholarship in each relevant field. We don't have the time or opportunity to do this here.

To my mind, governments have no power over civilization and culture, since governments are controlled by the people, and the people make civilizations and culture. — Beverley

Seems a bit simplistic. The role of media and corporate power play a big role in this space and in the end it’s not about who makes civilisation, it’s about who tells the story and what they choose to accept, embellish or suppress.

All governments take the credit for work that came before them — Tom Storm

"All"? Are you sure?

And the idea that there is one accurate account of hsitory is itself farcical. — Tom Storm

There isn't one 100% accurate account of anything! But I am talking about getting a general gist of what happened in the past. A huge part of being a historian is weighing up bias and trying to get the closest to the truth as possible. No historian worth their salt would dare to announce that they had found a 100% accurate account of the past. But this doesn't mean that there isn't value to studying history.

Do any countries tell the truth about their past? — Tom Storm

Are you talking about the people or the governments? It seems hard to tell the difference, and it also seems like a big grouping of a lot of people, but anyway, I would say that as much truth is told about a country's past as is told about a person's past. We all lie to others, and ourselves, but this doesn't mean that we are incapable of being truthful as well. (I mean 'truthful' as far as we know) But then again, these are just my thoughts, based on how I see things. I could be totally wrong, but I love the debate and hearing other people's views on things. :)

"All"? Are you sure? — Beverley

I think so. But there may be one or two who don't - let me know who they are. :wink:

We were talking about a claim about a Chinese historical account of people using a specific medicine and living for 100 years, with no sign of ageing. A reference was made to some historical records as proof (which incidentally were not produced), and, regardless, amount to an appeal to tradition fallacy. The rest of this meandering discussion was a generalist account of whether any country's stories about itself can be entirely trusted.

I would say that as much truth is told about a country's past as is told about a person's past. — Beverley

I don't know why you would say this. Many countries are outright liars and cheats in the way most people are not. But would such a claim not depend upon, the country, the individual and the alleged facts we were exploring with either of them? For instance, I would think China's official account of the 1989 Tiananmen Square protests would not match the Australian account. I would not think the white Australian account of Aboriginal history would match the historical accounts of the Aboriginal people. Etc, etc. When we are talking about individual's stories we rarely encounter mass murder, intimidation, suppression of opposition views, censorship and fabricated history, the way we do so often with nations, right?

...but I love the debate and hearing other people's views on things. :) — Beverley

:up: Debate helps keep the skin toned and clear. :wink:

But isn't this what all governments say? — Hanover

Glad you discussed it.

Will you tell your kids or students the wrong things?

Chinese things are passed by parents to kids, and masters to disciples.
Generation by generation for 5,000 years.
Sometimes the parents and teachers went through wars or countless difficult times, but they still did their best to keep the knowledge and passed it to their kids and students.

Are there any westerner ancestors who passed things to your generation nowadays and you know it is valuable?

Generation by generation for 5,000 years. — YiRu Li

I specified above that this is inaccurate. Chinese civilisation is not 5'000 years old, it is short of 3'400, making it younger than Greek but older than Roman and about the same age as Iranian (Avestan).

I specified above that this is inaccurate. Chinese civilisation is not 5'000 years old, it is short of 3'400, — Lionino

3,400 years ago books did record earlier ancient books' things.
So 5,000 years ago knowledge is still kept inside the 3,400-year-old books.
Older books' materials can not keep too long.
So the Chinese will keep copy and quote the old books.

Chinese writing has a rule: every article must quote books before it.

3,400 years ago books did record earlier ancient books' things.
So 5,000 years ago knowledge is still kept inside the 3,400-year-old books. — YiRu Li

Then you point becomes not helpful. Your choice of 5'000 thousand is for no reason (why not 6 or 8), and if it is as you say, there is nothing special about Chinese in this aspect: every language and every culture carries knowledge that is as old as mankind itself.

Your choice of 5'000 thousand is for no reason (why not 6 or 3), — Lionino

Chinese genealogy and Chinese calendar records the years.
Chinese civilization was created by the Yellow Emperor.
It didn't exist even one day before Yellow Emperor.

The Chinese have countless ways to keep old things.
I really can not tell all of them too much here.
I suggest if we need, we use the old knowledge as a hint,
We are still back to our discussion.

Are there any westerner ancestors who passed things to your generation nowadays and you know it is valuable? — YiRu Li

There are of course, but what we're talking about isn't how information is transmitted, but the accuracy of the trasmission. I would suggest that all cultures pass their mythology down to their children, and there is a reason for that mythology in maintaining a certain culuture and belief system, but that doesn't mean that the wars of the Bible, for example, actually occurred as set out or whether they occured at all.

The Bible (which is the Western example) describes battles that the ancient Hebrews either heroically won or that they lost due to their failure to do the will of God. That is, it's all set forth with the Hebrews being the center of importance, maintaining a theme that justice prevails when one acts in accordance with God's law.

The point being that history accuracy, particularly the ancient sort, did not rely upon the modern sorts of rules we apply to historical accuracy today. They did not make sure the sources were double checked, that opposing accounts were considered, or that physical evidence was examined. They made sure it maintained a certain narrative they wanted advanced.

For a specific answer to your question, within Judaism, for example, there is a concept known as L'dor v'dor, which literally means "from generation to generation," a talmudic requirement that "is understood to mean the transmission of the culture's values, rituals, traditions, and history to the next generation."

https://pjlibrary.org/beyond-books/pjblog/december-2016/what-is-ldor-vdor