• Janus
    16.5k
    By my estimation we're a group of people who either aren't doing philosophy or don't wish to be doing it.fdrake

    I think that very much depends on what you would count as "doing philosophy".
  • fdrake
    6.7k
    I think that very much depends on what you would count as "doing philosophy".Janus

    It does.
  • Wayfarer
    22.8k
    I’m not a particularly proactive mod, but I’m very much aware of how hard it is to moderate debates like the Middle East thread, and I take my hat off to those mods and I also support the decisions they have to make. It's a fine line between being heavy-handed or censorious, on the one side, or too laissez faire on the other. I think this forum in particular does a pretty good job of threading the needle but there will always be issues that tend to bring out very strong opinions.
  • Metaphysician Undercover
    13.2k
    And of course, there's the hypocritical anti-philosophy types who don't wish to be doing philosophy, and even claim not to be doing philosophy, while not having the will power to prevent themselves from doing philosophy... and so they go, into the production of depraved philosophy.
  • L'éléphant
    1.6k
    And of course, there's the hypocritical anti-philosophy types who don't wish to be doing philosophy, and even claim not to be doing philosophy, while not having the will power to prevent themselves from doing philosophy... and so they go, into the production of depraved philosophy.Metaphysician Undercover

    :100: :grin:
  • ssu
    8.7k
    Myself, I wonder why this particular forum, which is mainly concerned with philosophy, ought to accomodate never-ending threads on vexatious topics such as Middle Eastern politics, which is famously divisive.Wayfarer
    I confess to be one of the perpetrators of posting and continuing threads that aren't philosophical, but political. The reason is at least to me obvious: people in the forum are more aware about global and political issues than average and there are intelligent people that do not share my political views. For me this forum is like a canary in the coal mine of sorts. It is also that others provide good links and other useful information. And lastly, you do also get good responses and other viewpoints!

    And as being interested in the philosophy of mathematics, this forum was genuinely helpful for me: you can express your amateur ideas and if they are incorrect, you will get corrected. I remember years ago when in the university going to a teacher in the mathematics department and asking about issues and he seemed horrified that a total stranger from another faculty came up to him and asked about the philosophy of math (obviously some kind of crank!)

    I get that threads on politics generate a lot of animosity, but this is a philosophy forum. That should mean that discussions about politics, society and conflicts at least follow an ability to formulate criticism and arguments by a certain standard of internal logic while maintaining a tone fit for proper philosophical discussion.Christoffer
    That would be the objective, I guess.
  • Lionino
    2.7k
    It would be better perhaps to have non-philosophical threads moved to another section, like the short story competitions, without it being on the forefront of the website.
  • Michael
    15.8k
    I’m not a particularly proactive mod, but I’m very much aware of how hard it is to moderate debates like the Middle East threadWayfarer

    I have a script that replaces the words "Israel", "Palestine", and "Hamas" with random words. Makes it easy.
  • Hanover
    13k
    There's obviously a difference between political philosophy and arguing politics, the former we see much less of. I doubt in the former you'd hear a whole lot of fuck yous, bullshits, insults, questioning integrity, subtly racist outbursts, or name calling.

    My New Year's resolution is to stear clear of the political threads. I don't think it's philosophy per se, but I do think it belongs here, but I don't think it adds a whole lot to whatever my reason is for being here. The threads tend to create bad feeling, accentuate our closely held personal differences, do nothing to cause reconsideration of our views, and generally piss each other off. I can find animosity all around me. I don't need to come here for that.

    And this isn't a lecture to others. I can be as hostile as anyone else,. I just happen to be right when everyone else is wrong so it's justified.
  • Michael
    15.8k
    I just happen to be right when everyone else is wrong so it's justified.Hanover

    Given that knowledge is often defined as justified true belief it then suggests that there's such a thing as unjustified true belief and justified false belief. So your claim here is a non sequitur.

    There's some philosophy for ya. :joke:
  • Pantagruel
    3.4k
    It is of course possible to "be philosophical" while not actually doing philosophy. For example, when discussing current events.

    viz.
    This is something I’ve been saying many times. I get that threads on politics generate a lot of animosity, but this is a philosophy forum. That should mean that discussions about politics, society and conflicts at least follow an ability to formulate criticism and arguments by a certain standard of internal logic while maintaining a tone fit for proper philosophical discussionChristoffer

    Not just an internal logic, but especially a tone and demeanor.
  • Lionino
    2.7k
    Care to share the script?

    I just happen to be right when everyone else is wrong so it's justified.Hanover

    I am happy to hear you agree with me on every topic.
  • Metaphysician Undercover
    13.2k

    Very good logic. We are all right therefore we all agree.
  • ssu
    8.7k
    There's obviously a difference between political philosophy and arguing politics, the former we see much less of.Hanover
    I think this forum makes a very good distinction between the philosophy of religion and religious debates themselves.

    That's a good example.
  • Hanover
    13k
    I think this forum makes a very good distinction between the philosophy of religion and religious debates themselves.

    That's a good example.
    ssu

    It is a good example, consistent with the adage not to discuss religion and politics.
  • baker
    5.7k
    My New Year's resolution is to stear clear of the political threads.Hanover
    Will you give up acting like a lawyer at a philosophy forum?

    The threads tend to create bad feeling, accentuate our closely held personal differences, do nothing to cause reconsideration of our views, and generally piss each other off.
    Not the threads/topics themselves do this, but the adversarial approach to interaction with others, as if this was a courtroom and the whole point was to win a debate before a judging audience.
  • baker
    5.7k
    It is a good example, consistent with the adage not to discuss religion and politics.Hanover
    ... in polite society.
  • Michael
    15.8k
    Care to share the script?Lionino

    I was actually joking but as you asked I quickly threw something together. Requires this extension: https://www.tampermonkey.net/

    // ==UserScript==
    // @name         Replace Israel Palestine Hamas
    // @namespace    http://tampermonkey.net/
    // @version      2024-01-02
    // @description  try to take over the world!
    // @author       You
    // @match        https://thephilosophyforum.com/discussion/10926/*
    // @icon         data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAAAAACH5BAEKAAEALAAAAAABAAEAAAICTAEAOw==
    // @grant        none
    // ==/UserScript==
    
    (function() {
        'use strict';
    
        const items = ['foo', 'bar', 'baz']
    
        document.querySelectorAll('.Message').forEach((element) => {
    
            [/\bisrael.*?\b/ig, /\bjew.*?\b/ig, /\bislam.*?\b/ig, /\bmuslim.*?\b/ig, /\bpalestin.*?\b/ig, /hamas/ig].forEach((pattern) => {
                element.innerHTML = element.innerHTML.replace(pattern, items[Math.floor(Math.random()*items.length)])
            })
    
        });
    
      
    })();
    

    Applies to "Israel", "Palestine", "Islam", "Jew", "Muslim", and "Hamas".

    Example:

    uqxa0lm8h75iyfip.png

    Could also just have it use the same word or phrase for every replacement, e.g. "Michael is awesome"?
  • Baden
    16.4k
    if I had the steely self-restraint of a @Michael or @ssu I might frequent the pol threads more often. It's not from lack of interest but I usually can't last more than a few days before exhaustion sets in. Should we push them off the front page? I don't think so. But some of us should probably accept on certain issues engaging with them is just emotionally destructive.
  • baker
    5.7k
    In the case of the Israel-Palestine discussion it just feels like a perfect example of neither side listening to the other, both handling facts and knowledge like weapons to win an argument without regards to their validity or caring to accept the level of validity of the other side’s presented facts.Christoffer
    I sometimes wonder whether this is actually the point of those "discussions". To verbally and vicariously extend and participate in the war that is being discussed. That not listening, not engaging fairly is a virtue.

    I just discovered, while reading up on Die Kuns, Recht zu behalten[/bli], that there are textbooks teaching argumentation in law that instruct lawyers to use what in philosophy is known as informsl logical fallacies.
  • baker
    5.7k
    ^Sorry, posting from the phone, it doesn't let me edit posts.
  • Michael
    15.8k
    if I had the steely self-restraint of a MichaelBaden

    The secret is to be dead inside.
  • Mikie
    6.7k
    Let’s move the discussion about political topics, etc., to feedback.
  • Jamal
    9.8k
    @boagie has been banned for low quality and toxicity.
  • Echarmion
    2.7k
    A good thing we no longer have to deal with the weird propaganda screeds!
  • Outlander
    2.2k
    Well that's a surprise. I was expecting to find the name of someone else on this latest tombstone to be quite honest.

    Hm. Perhaps it's just a bit of projection on my part, but I feel him to be but a victim of the lustful, buxom charms of the temptress' bosom that is alcoholic beverage.

    Oh well. What's done is done I suppose.
  • Corvus
    3.4k
    boagie has been banned for low quality and toxicity.Jamal
    Understandable and reasonable decision. There is no place for toxicity, derogatory languages or the swearing directed towards the individuals in Philosophy. We can disagree with, demand evidence and proofs, and reject the opinions, views and points of others.

    But I understand that, still all of us are expected to have respect, the good spirits and basic manners towards the fellow members whoever they are at all times.
  • Lionino
    2.7k
    Well that's a surprise. I was expecting to find the name of someone else on this latest tombstone to be quite honest.Outlander

    Disappointing, isn't it?
    As an even funnier, and more disappointing point, I was the one who brought boagie's behaviour to the moderation's sight.

    Amazing, I personally don't even visit those threads, but if it becomes an issue in the rest of the site I will replace it with "I am not sure what I am talking about but it". It would be pretty funny.
  • AmadeusD
    2.6k
    hat there are textbooks teaching argumentation in law that instruct lawyers to use what in philosophy is known as informsl logical fallacies.baker

    This is somewhat implicit for criminal defence lawyers lmao
  • Jamal
    9.8k
    Banned @Steven P Clum for low quality culture war stuff and throwing around accusations when criticized.
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