Well, I can't say the UK and the Netherlands are improvements currently. Sunak and Wilders, what a joke.

We live in degenerate times. And our opposition leader is burbling on about growth, as the solution to all our ills, when any fool can see that we need to be dealing with climate change and flood mitigation, and growth is not going to happen and would not improve our lives if it did. Unreality prevails because reality is not pleasant, and actors are therefore our leaders.

Special counsel probe uncovers new details about Trump's inaction on Jan. 6

The US populace badly needs education on the nature of narcissism. What amazes me is how anyone who had worked in the White House for more than a month, didn't recognize Trump as a dangerous narcissist.

Couldn’t get him for what he did do, so they try to get him for what he didn’t do.

Ever heard of the reasonable person test? — Benkei

Would a reasonable person go on criticizing Trump the way so many of his critics do, on and on and on?

This is from the film "The Ides of March" (2011), two campaign managers from the Democratic Party talking to eachother:


DUFFY
None of this is about the
democratic process Steve, It's
about getting your guy into office.
Simple as that.


STEPHEN
This is the sort of shit the
Republicans pull.


DUFFY
You're right, this is exactly what
the Republicans do, and it's about
time we learned from them. They're
meaner, tougher and more
disciplined than we are. I've been
in this business for twenty five
years and I've seen way too many
Democrats bite the dust because
they wouldn't get down in the mud
with the fucking elephants.

And remember a wise saying by Democrat statesman and politician Daniel Patrick Moynihan: Everyone has a right to their own opinions, but not to their own facts.

It is a fact that Donald J Trump lost the last election and failed in 60 lawsuits to have the result overturned.

It is a fact that, in the words of the January 6th Committee, Trump called the mob, motivated the mob, and lit the match that resulted in the disgraceful, deadly mob attack on the US Capital on Jan 6th 2021. It was not a peaceful protest or a false flag event, but instigated and encouraged by Donald J Trump, who is due to face court for his involvement in these events in the next several months.

Hope this is all sufficiently clear. It will be repeated as often as is necessary in this thread. — Wayfarer

Wrong approach. If force and "facts" worked, don't you think we'd have seen results by now?

As long as Trump's critics play into his game, he's got the upper hand. Republicans and rightwingers of various flavors have one thing in common: the desire to rule. And they are not ashamed of it, they do not feel guilty about it. As long as their critics can't come up with a similar desire to rule, their efforts will be in vain. Because politics is about ruling people.

The US populace badly needs education on the nature of narcissism. — wonderer1

No, they "need" education on the authority and validity of psychology.

Instead, he undermined confidence in the system, and fanned the flames of conspiracy theorists. — Relativist

If his actions "undermined confidence in the system" then there wasn't any worthwhile confidence in the system before to begin with.

If his actions "undermined confidence in the system" then there wasn't any worthwhile confidence in the system before to begin with. — baker

"The system" is a whole bunch of people acting in various ways. Some activities are conducive to a healthy political discourse, others aren't. To pretend the system itself has some inherent resistance to undermining actions is folly, because it makes people lazy. We can certainly design systems to make it more difficult to fuck it up but that requires people actively designing it and then to continue to guard the parameters in which the system was designed to operate. Crap behaviour needs to be pointed out and condemned.

Because politics is about ruling people. — baker

That is an authoritarian political philosophy.

That is an authoritarian political philosophy. — Wayfarer

It's not possible to defeat authoritarians with kumbayah.
And you _are_ up against authoritarians.

It's not possible to defeat authoritarians with kumbayah. — baker

I don't intend to. I intend to keep posting facts about the case.

The US populace badly needs education on the nature of narcissism.
— wonderer1
No, they "need" education on the authority and validity of psychology. — baker

Sure, better education in psychology in general would be good. But the authority? No.

Psychology should be seen as a bunch of what people at times found to be the inferences to the best explanation. However given the broader scientific perspective, it needs to be understood that psychology needs to be taken with a grain of salt. It's just the best we have for now.

It's not possible to defeat authoritarians with kumbayah.
— baker
I don't intend to. I intend to keep posting facts about the case. — Wayfarer

The problem is that you (plural) don't know whom you're up against and you don't even care to find out what it would take to win against them.

This "posting of facts" is what exactly? A way to please yourself? To ease your conscience?

Sure, better education in psychology in general would be good. But the authority? No.

Psychology should be seen as a bunch of what people at times found to be the inferences to the best explanation. However given the broader scientific perspective, it needs to be understood that psychology needs to be taken with a grain of salt. It's just the best we have for now. — wonderer1

That's not good enough. Do you really think you can convince a bunch of authoritarians with this kind of liberal relativism??

That's not good enough. Do you really think you can convince a bunch of authoritarians with this kind of liberal relativism?? — baker

Not in the short term. But with a longer term perspective, and via ongoing discussion I have had success pointing others to what a better informed perspective looks like.

Are you saying that you lack such experiences yourself?

If his actions "undermined confidence in the system" then there wasn't any worthwhile confidence in the system before to begin with. — baker

Do you believe the 2020 election was stolen?

The problem is that you (plural) don't know whom you're up against and you don't even care to find out what it would take to win against them. — baker

What would it take to win against them?

Ecce homo.

Missouri Secretary of State Jay Ashcroft tweeted: “While I expect the Supreme Court to overturn this, if not, Secretaries of State will step in & ensure the new legal standard for @realDonaldTrump applies equally to @JoeBiden!”
Of course the standard should apply equally! If Biden supports an insurrection, he should be also be barred. The problem, of course, is that Ashcroft (and others) are trying to treat policy disagreements as insurrection.

I previously predicted that SCOTUS would not put forth a definition of "insurrection". I'll amend that slightly: if they DO rule in Colorado's favor (which I think possible, but unlikely) they will need to define the term to prevent such nonsense as Ashcroft threatens.

Ex Trump Press Secretary Says His Base Would Rather Believe ANY Conspiracy Than Realize He’s a ‘Fraud’ Who Doesn’t Care About America

GRISHAM: I think that when you believe in somebody so much, when you believe in somebody like Donald Trump. And I can speak to this because I actually did believe in him for a very long time. I think that when you put it all on the line and believe in somebody, I think it’s easier then to just want to believe that the FBI, that law enforcement, that the people who go to help us when we’re in trouble would be behind something, rather than admitting that the person you’ve been backing for years and years is a fraud and actually doesn’t care about the American people or our country.

I say that just from personal experience. It was really hard for me to come to terms with who he was because I really believed in him, his policies and the person I thought he was. So that’s what I think. I think that people just would rather believe these conspiracy theories rather than admit that they were wrong about this person.

ACOSTA: Yeah. And, Stephanie, I mean, you were around him so much. I mean, based on your experience when he peddles this stuff, does he know he’s lying? Does he convince himself that the lie is true? Is he just a kind of a crackpot who believes in conspiracy theories? And so he thinks what he’s saying is true. Which is it? Do we know what it is?

GRISHAM: Well, he’s not a crackpot. He’s actually a very smart man. I mean, he was president of the United States, so we have to give him a modicum of credit for that. But no, he knows he’s lying. He used to tell me when I was press secretary, go out there and say this, and if it was false, he would say, ‘it doesn’t matter, Stephanie. Just say it over and over and over again. People will believe it.’

He knows his base, believes in him. He knows he can basically say anything and his base will believe what he’s saying now. I think this will help propel him into the general. But I think that independents and, you know, center-leaning Republicans are not going to be buying this. They’re much, much smarter than that. And so I think that he’s going to get in trouble in the general with this kind of, uh, these kind of lies.

ACOSTA: So when he says that, oh, the FBI, Antifa, that kind of stuff, you think he he knows he’s lying.

GRISHAM: I know he knows he’s lying. I mean, I, you know, was with him nonstop for six years. He knows all he has to do is continue to say thing, and people — say these things and people will believe him.

I don't know if the "He’s actually a very smart man" is a reason I shouldn't believe the rest of it. :lol:

'Smart' as in 'cunning', and he's undoubtedly that. This piece illustrates the sense in which Trump is personality cult. Grisham speaks from the perspective of someone who has seen through it and left, which she says was 'really hard'.

Trumper Carlson has taken to saying that the strength of the US economy is due to the Feds 'spinning' it, rather than because Biden's economic policies are effective. They will go to any length, these people.

Crazy accusations in a new court motion.

BREAKING: Filing alleges ‘improper’ relationship between Fulton DA, top Trump prosecutor
Fani Willis hired alleged romantic partner as special prosecutor, court motion says
https://www.ajc.com/politics/breaking-filing-alleges-improper-relationship-between-fulton-da-top-trump-prosecutor/A2N2OWCM7FFWJBQH2ORAK2BKMQ/

District Attorney Fani Willis improperly hired an alleged romantic partner to prosecute Donald Trump and financially benefited from their relationship, according to a court motion filed Monday arguing the indictment was unconstitutional.

The bombshell public filing alleged that special prosecutor Nathan Wade, a private attorney, paid for lavish vacations he took with Willis using the Fulton County funds his law firm received. County records show that Wade, who has played a prominent role in the election interference case, has been paid nearly $654,000 in legal fees since January 2022. The DA authorizes his compensation.

The motion, filed on behalf of defendant Michael Roman, a former Trump campaign official, seeks to have the charges against Roman dismissed and for Willis, Wade and the entire DA’s office to be disqualified from further prosecution of the case.

Pallavi Bailey, a Willis spokeswoman, said the DA’s office will respond to Roman’s allegations “through appropriate court filings.”

It is unclear if the explosive issues raised in the filing undermine the validity of the indictment against Trump and the remaining 14 co-defendants or simply muddy the waters by questioning Willis’ professional ethics.

The filing also offers no concrete proof of the romantic ties between Willis and Wade, except to say “sources close to both the special prosecutor and the district attorney have confirmed they had an ongoing, personal relationship.”

It alleges that Willis and Wade have been involved in a romantic relationship that began before Wade was appointed special prosecutor. It says they traveled together to Napa Valley and Florida, and they cruised the Caribbean using tickets Wade purchased from Norwegian and Royal Caribbean cruise lines — although the filing did not include documentation of those purchases.

The motion also said the checks sent to Wade from Fulton County and his subsequent purchase of vacations for Willis could amount to honest services fraud, a federal crime in which a vendor gives kickbacks to an employer. It is also possible this could be prosecuted under the federal racketeering statute, the motion said.

Roman’s lawyer, Marietta attorney Ashleigh Merchant, wrote that the “motion is not filed lightly. Nor is it being filed without considerable forethought, research or investigation.”

But the issue had to be raised and must be heard because the issues “strike at the heart of fairness in our justice system and, if left unaddressed and unchecked, threaten to taint the entire prosecution of this case, invite error and completely undermine public confidence in any outcome in this proceeding.”

Willis and Wade, the motion contends, “have been engaged in an improper, clandestine personal relationship during the pendency of this case, which has resulted in the special prosecutor, and, in turn, the district attorney, profiting significantly from this prosecution at the expense of the taxpayers.”

A problem with Wade’s appointment is that it was not approved by the Fulton board of commissioners as required by law, the motion said. The motion also questions Wade’s credentials, contending he has never prosecuted a felony case.

If all this turns out to be true it's just another instance of corruption in Trump's opponents and the justice system.

So far, it's an 'if'. Searching for Fani Willis and Nathan Wade turns up many previous mentions. And note the caveats about the absence of any documentation of the alleged purchase. So, it might be a bad look, but it might also be a desperate effort by Trump's defense to throw whatever mud they think they can get their hands on.

Nevertheless, all grist to the mill, which is certainly churning at top speed.

If all this turns out to be true it's just another instance of corruption in Trump's opponents and the justice system. — NOS4A2

Are you suggesting an abuse of power like this:?

NEW YORK, Dec 13 (Reuters) - Donald Trump cannot assert presidential immunity from a defamation lawsuit by writer E. Jean Carroll, who accused him of rape, a U.S. appeals court ruled on Wednesday, dealing the former U.S. president another legal setback.

I have thought about this statement for several days and it strikes me as a perfect parody of what some people think.

Are you completely cynical and pulling on people's reactions or do you have any skin in the game? Do you want something for yourself and yours or are simply amusing yourself?

I have thought about this statement for several days and it strikes me as a perfect parody of what some people think.

Are you completely cynical and pulling on people's reactions or do you have any skin in the game? Do you want something for yourself and yours or are simply amusing yourself?

I’m just passing the time.

Does dissent from The Narrative frighten you? Because I haven’t seen try to impugn anyone else’s motives.

I’m just passing the time. — NOS4A2

So, no skin in the game.

Does dissent from The Narrative frighten you? Because I haven’t seen try to impugn anyone else’s motives. — NOS4A2

Very funny, in view of all the assumptions you have made about motives. I appreciate the clear answers.

Does dissent from The Narrative frighten you? — NOS4A2

No, but outright lies are irksome, and Trump's narrative is constructed almost entirely from them. Take this for example:

That’s to say nothing of Jan 6th protesters. Even though they never assaulted any private property, never looted local businesses, never committed any arson, nor killed anyone (a streak that cannot be found among the rioters of 2020), — NOS4A2

Five people died as a direct consequence of their actions, and more than 150 were injured. The attackers pillaged and desecrated the private offices of congressional staff.

The attack bears no comparision to the 'Black Lives Matter' protests you're referring to, as none of them amounted to an assault on the Capitol. You continue to propagate falsehoods being diseeminated by various Trump-allied media outlets. That is irksome.

Henceforth I intend to fact-check anything you write in this thread.

The attack bears no comparision to the 'Black Lives Matter' protests you're referring to, as none of them amounted to an assault on the Capitol. — Wayfarer

This is difficult. No, they are not analogous, but the BLM protests caused MORE damage and 19 people died.

(the links are the same page, but address the two issues separately on it)

Sure. Who is saying that riots and civil disorder is a good thing? Comparing the BLM protests to the attack on the US Capital aimed at over-turning the election result is classic Trump 'whataboutism'. It's not going to go unchallenged.