Fair enough, mate. It was an interesting exchange and I appreciate your contributions to my thread. I will be honest: I ran out of ideas and arguments to keep posting and replying to you. So, instead of wasting your time, I think I must stop because I am ending up in a meaningless circle, the victim of my own comments. — javi2541997
My only, I promise the last, conclusion (regarding our exchange on the perception of suicide by the receivers) is that if I kill myself, people in the 'real' (outside the internet) world would not care. Maybe you will care cohabiting with me on the world and reality of The Philosophy Forum. — javi2541997
Is it a contradiction or a paradox? I don't know which one to pick up. This is why I used the example of the falling tree. The main point is as it follows: If I were absent for many months here, I think that some of you would wonder and ask what is going on with Javi. If, in this case, you noticed my death, you would care, even if you haven't even seen my face yet. But, paradoxically, it will not have the same impact on the people who see me every day.
My suicide would be like the tree which fell down unnoticed in the physical (non-virtual) world.
I hope I explained myself a bit better this time... — javi2541997
And, as you highlighted, I also want to know with more detail the thoughts of Fosse regarding suicide after reading some of his novels. — javi2541997
Are you saying that people who see you every day would not even notice if suddenly you were not there? — Metaphysician Undercover
But what you describe is people who see the whole, crowds of people every day, but do not notice any individuals, like yourself. — Metaphysician Undercover
The issue being that one, the one you call the real world is not a social world at all, it is a world of social exclusion, within which you are alone. However, you have also the internet world within which you are socially active. — Metaphysician Undercover
With these premises or 'background', I personally believe that if I committed suicide, people would not care at all. — javi2541997
I would care a lot, Javi. And I'm sure others here would too. You are a valued member here, my friend. — Tom Storm
We should be clear on the context: Norwegians have mainly written in Bokmål, and Fosse is a pioneer in writing instead in Nynorsk, a largely spoken, and a minority-use, language. So what he has done is to make his version of a vernacular language into a literary language. — mcdoodle
...it is just the vision of some racist cunt... — Ø implies everything
I wonder how the silent language is understood, used and commonly established in the truly Norwegian language or Danish-influenced Bokmål. We were discussing this because it is interesting how Fosse distinguishes silence and pauses. — javi2541997
I thought so too but then compare Norway with UK, for instance. There are no mountains or fjords that separate groups of people, yet there are many diverse dialects. Possibly because groups of people are kept spart by social barriers.I think there's a greater diversity of dialects in Norway than in most countries. — Ø implies everything
I start to wonder if written language has musicality or not, or if it is just monotonous... — javi2541997
Coincidentally, this happened a few hours actually. The conversation happened to include a random person my grandparents knew, and they mentioned that he killed himself. Now, when I say casually, I don't mean that people talk about it flippantly in cases regarding actual suicides. When actual suicides are mentioned, they are mentioned in either a serious or neutral tone. — Ø implies everything
As for romanticizing or legitimizing suicide, I would wager that Norway does it more than e.g. the U.S. First of all, Norway is quite secular, so that's a factor demonizing/stimgatizing suicide almost entirely removed. — Ø implies everything
But suicide in general is topic often joked about with younger people in Norway (millenials & Gen Z), but I reckon this more flippant attitude to the topic is generally more prevalent with younger people around the world, not just in Norway. — Ø implies everything
Maybe I am just projecting, but when the topic comes up, it seems like people have a face of "too bad they couldn't resist", or something like that. — Ø implies everything
Personally, I have some suicidal ideations (though no suicidal thoughts), and as a result, I don't find cases of suicide (regardless of how well the person seemed to be) shocking. — Ø implies everything
Me too, and I usually felt alone because I never found a person of my age (I am of the millennial generation) thinking in a way like I do... And, people tended to isolate me obviously, because we are young and there is no time to think about this! Since I read Mishima, I have seen suicide as an idealised-beautiful ending. Furthermore, Fosse helps me to see it even clearer. — javi2541997
I wonder if the dialects of Norway are more diverse than the dialects of the average country. Norway is a large country, and with a geography that tends to isolate communities. Therefore, I think there's a greater diversity of dialects in Norway than in most countries. In any case, the degree of dialectical diversity is why a programme like Nynorsk is doomed from the get-go. — Ø implies everything
Imagine if every individual insisted "I will only use my language" and each time two people met there was a lot of resistance toward compromise. — Metaphysician Undercover
The attitudes towards Nynorsk and Bokmål are quite separate from this, however. Nynorsk/bokmål are not competing with the dialects; the Norwegian dialects have no standardizes written form, and Nynorsk and Bokmål have no standardized spoken form. Nynorsk is the language that fits my dialect the best, so if dialectical pride played a part, I would prefer Nynorsk. Yet, I prefer Bokmål, because at least its construction was not as stupid as that of Nynorsk. — Ø implies everything
The main reason you gave for dislike of Nynorsk was the way that the author treated certain dialects. — Metaphysician Undercover
In other words the exclusion only becomes significant in relation to an attitude of dialectical pride, and, the exclusion is significant to you — Metaphysician Undercover
And my father raises his arm, my father raises his arm in the air and takes off his peaked cap, raises his peaked cap in the air and waves at me with his peaked cap. My father comes running down the pier, waving his peaked cap in the air.
And my father stops at the edge of the pier and asks me if I'm not doing well, if I want to go home. Yes, I have to go home, I say. And suddenly, my father is on the edge of the dock, and he takes a step forward. Just like that, my father walks on the water and then the waves swallow him up. And what's wrong with my father? Is he drowning? Or has he simply fallen into the water? Don't drown, father. Why did you jump into the water? Father! Father! You have to get out of the water.
What do you folks think? — javi2541997
So if the narrator is on the pier daydreaming, using his imagination, then it's better that you the reader, use your imagination to better understand the situation described. — Metaphysician Undercover
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